Indians For Guns

What is Project Appleseed?

Project Appleseed is an activity of The Revolutionary War Veterans Association, a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, dedicated to teaching every American our shared heritage and history as well as traditional rifle marksmanship skills. Our volunteer instructors travel across the country teaching those who attend about the difficult choices, the heroic actions, and the sacrifices that the Founders made on behalf of modern Americans, all of whom are their “progeny.”

What do they teach?

On April 19th, 1775, the British farmers, shopkeepers, lawyers, doctors, and craftsmen then living in the Colonies chose to face one of the the world's most feared and best equipped Army in a dispute over their rights and privileges as Englishmen. Learn why and how these brave early Americans did what they did at an Appleseed near you. RWVA instructors use Brandeis University History Professor David Hackett Fischer's best-seller Paul Revere's Ride to teach how the Revolutionary War began in a series of stories that capture the initial hesitation as well as the ferocity of that day.

Why Marksmanship?

Why teach marksmanship? Because good shooting requires learning positive traits such as patience, determination, focus, attention to detail, and persistence. Since these skills are likewise key elements of mature participation in civic activities, we urge our students to take what they have learned about themselves as marksmen and apply it to their participation in their communities and in the wider American society in accordance with their own choices about how Americans should govern themselves.

What kind of Marksmanship?

Some may say "basic", but a better term might be foundational. The skills taught at Appleseed are Traditional American Rifleman skills that have been unique throughout the history of this country. The American Rifleman is capable of shooting a 20" target out to 500 yards, or a milk jug at 250 yards, using a standard, rack grade rifle, surplus ammo, iron sights, from field positions, this is what your forefathers were capable of. These skills transfer to any kind of shooting and while they should be considered "basic" to most Americans, they are more often seen as "advanced" by today's shooters....This is what Appleseed is trying to change.

Link:http://appleseedinfo.org

So what's this really about?
I guess I'll find out this weekend. I will be going to attend an Appleseed event this weekend with a friend. It's a two day event. I'm looking to earn a Rifleman patch. So I've got my "liberty rifle" ready, my shooting pad, a GI sling and 1000 rounds of ammo. Appleseed's sponsors contend that if you can shoot one rifle, you can shoot them all. While you can use any rifle there, they encourage people to bring a .22 LR rifle and a brick or two of ammo and ANYONE is welcome to attend. I will post photos after the event.

Rifleman Patch: (Click photo to view full size)

Photo by Oleg


Some other experiences:
http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2012/04/a ... -time.html
http://womenofuspsa.com/wp/?p=3862
http://wordpress.knitebane.net/firearms ... -rifleman/

Wow , sound's like a fun to me, i wish if i can attend this event.Please post lot's of pictures for us and good luck .



Baljit

Baljit wrote:Wow , sound's like a fun to me, i wish if i can attend this event.Please post lot's of pictures for us and good luck .

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Wow , sound's like a fun to me, i wish if i can attend this event.

I wish all you guys could be there. It sounds like it's going to be a fun filled weekend.
History and shooting in the company of like minded individuals; what's not to like?

My range buddy, Dave and I have been planning this for a while. I was getting my trusty 10/22 ready. I have had this rifle for 28 years and it's like an old friend; comforting.



She shoots well. Here is a 50 yard group with Wolf MT ammo.


About three weeks ago, she started shooting all over the place. I thought it just needed cleaning so I took it apart and found to my horror, a cracked receiver.


I emailed Ruger and they said to send the receiver in for evaluation. From what I have read in other forums, they will replace it. Their customer service is top-notch. Keep in mind that this rifle was purchased in 1984 and has been fired a LOT. Anyway the receiver is with them now and I'm waiting for them to send me a new one.

So, I needed a rifle for this upcoming Appleseed. Really didn't have much choice as I hate borrowing a gun. So I went down to my local gun store and purchased another one. I mean one can never have enough .22's, right? Took the scope off and mounted it on the new one. I cleaned it up and ran a brick of ammo through it to make sure it would function. Well, it's a Ruger and if nothing else all my Rugers have been as reliable as the Bank of England (or as reliable as it used to be) and this rifle was no exception. I swapped out the trigger assembly from my old one as that has been well broken in. Even though it is a little heavy, the break is crisp.

So here is the new 10/22



She shoots OK. Not in the same class as my old one but good enough to get me through the event, I hope.
This is a 25 yard group with Federal Bulk pack ammo.

XL............. your new 10/22 looks beauty. i must say this, Ruger 10/22 one of the best rifle in the market for so many years and many more to come.i use to have two of them but i sold one and buy Ruger SR22 but i still have one for small game hunting.i agree with you .22 is never enough for fun no matter how many you have.

Federal Bulk pack is not very accurate ammo but looks like your new 10/22 shots good. my all .22lr guns did not like this ammo, did you try CCI Mini Mag. ammo? my 10/22 , SR22 and GSG 1911 love CCI ammo.i think you should try some of this ammo before the event to see if CCI give you a good accuracy.

make sure bring lot's of pictures for us.Good Luck

Baljit

This is certainly strange! Where my Mom & Dad lived in Montana, a very common pastime for retirees was gopher shooting. The ranchers didn't like to poison them out of the pastures, and they would buy all the ammunition for the retirees. It was a regular sight, to see a car pulled off in some pasture and one or two old geezers sitting in the car with .22 barrels sticking out of the windows.

The gun of choice was the 10/22. They are inexpensive, accurate, and reliable. Dad said that some of those old duffers wore out their 10/22s and were on a replacement. I can't imagine how many rounds it would take to wear one of those things out!

I would think it would have had to have been a random flaw for a crack like that to happen.

Let us know how the weekend goes, XL

Amazing initiative, probably something which would go a long way in helping sort out many issues in India - awareness, safety, skill and not to forget... FUN for everyone!!!

xl_target wrote:Well, it's a Ruger and if nothing else all my Rugers have been as reliable as the Bank of England (or as reliable as it used to be) and this rifle was no exception.

LOL @ "or as reliable as it used to be" - you are thinking back a generation or more...

Ruger makes some great guns - both rifles as well as revolvers... rock solid!

Of course sitting in India, the kind of after sales support that you chaps take for granted... is just amazing! AND I am not just talking about guns!!

Hope you & your friend have fun...
Cheers!
Abhijeet

Baljit,
Yes Federal Bulk pack is generally not the most accurate or consistent ammo out there but there is something else to keep in mind. CCI and Federal have the same parent company now. If you buy the Federal bulk packs made by CCI, they are relatively consistent. CCI serial numbers (on back of pack) start with a letter. Federal manufactured bulk packs have serial numbers starting with a number and will typically throw flyers that widen the groups. They are also not lubed, unlike the CCI made bulk packs.
Yes, Mini Mags are are generally more consistent but they didn't group any better than the stuff I was using (in this gun). They might group better at longer ranges, however.

Tim,
I believe you're correct, it has got to be a casting defect that was present from day one.
Not a bad retirement, to get to shoot all day for nothing.

LOL @ "or as reliable as it used to be" - you are thinking back a generation or more...

Abhijit,
I am showing my age, aren't I?

Of course sitting in India, the kind of after sales support that you chaps take for granted... is just amazing! AND I am not just talking about guns!!

I just wanted to share a letter that I received today from Ruger. Keep in mind that my 10/22 was 28 years old and has been shot a LOT. I very specifically told them that in the letter that I sent them with the receiver. So in light of this, I was expecting to pay for the part and return shipping at the very least.



When I called them on the phone, they said that if I had sent the whole gun in, they would have given me a brand new gun!!! This is absolutely incredible service and I want to make sure everyone knows about it.

Great story. Who doesn't appreciate being treated right, much less above and beyond the call of duty?

Sometimes, we all can get a bit grouchy when complaining about being shorted or ripped off some way. However, isn't it nice to read a story like this, where it has a happy ending?

Thanks for sharing, XL!

Appleseed Report:

This was a two day event on Saturday the 19th and Sunday the 20 (of May).

Saturday:
The venue was the Wells Rifle and Pistol Club in Wells, Minnesota. It was about a 100 mile round trip from my house.
While Appleseed events occur all over the country, for some reason, there are not that many held in Minnesota.


The Venue




This is one of Oleg's posters, I believe.

The day dawned nice and clear but by about 8:00 am, it turned cloudy with a storm front moving in. It was continuously windy with gusts up to 25 miles an hour. Luckily the wind was from our backs so they didn't affect the trajectory of the bullets that much. The target backers, however were dong quite a lively dance. We were made to shoot a modified AQT (Army Qualification Target) almost right away. I scored 191 out of 250 possible and so was pretty confident of getting my Rifleman patch which requires a score of 210. It was a warm day and the wind and storm front that clouded up the sky and prevented us from broiling on this 90 degree day.


The shooting line being set up. The middle position is mine.

We were taught how to sight in our guns and once sighted in we shot some "redcoat" targets.


Image from here
A Redcoat Target. The little square box represents an upended bucket at 250 yards which was required to be hit to get into one of the militia regiments.

We were then taught how to build a solid prone position and attain ones NPOA (Natural Point of Aim). This included using the GI sling for support. Previously, I just muscled the gun into position and held it there by muscle power alone. This can get very fatiguing over a period of time and you cannot hold the point of aim for a large number of shots without getting tired (and then shaking). It took a while for me to be able to achieve my prone NPOA properly. I really didn't get it till the second day. Once you attain your natural point of aim, the rifle will just sit there with the muzzle rising and falling (due to your breathing) in a perfect vertical line over the point of aim. You then have to control your breathing. You can adjust your position till your crosshair settles on the target when you exhale. One this position is achieved, it can be held indefinitely with your rifle ending up at the same spot every time you exhale. It is quite a revelation when this happens, as you can pump bullet after bullet into the same spot on the target. You can even close your eyes and when you exhale and then open your eyes, your crosshair will be sitting on the target, as steady as a rock. You are also taught how to shift your NPOA from target to target.
We then shot some more sighter groups to verify the rifle's zero. We shot different targets one after another all day. I almost ran out of staples.

About halfway through the day, I realized that my scope was too far back and while that was fine off a bench, it forced me to tilt my head back. By then I was very literally getting a real pain in the neck. So we moved the scope forward and re-tightened the mounts. I didn't have any tools with me so I just used a coin. I forgot all about it when I got home that night. This would come back and haunt me later.


One of the instructors recounting the battles.

During lunch, we were told about the first battles of the American Revolution where the militia continuously attacked the British Regulars during April 18th and 19th, 1775 on their retreat from Concord to Charleston. The British forces had gone out to confiscate powder stored by the militia and the people. Since they couldn't get all the guns, they were trying to get the ammunition supply. They didn't succeed because about 14,000 militia members responded to the call. It is important to remember that the militia marched just behind the British forces with specific orders not to fire first. When crossing a bridge, flankers put out by the British column, had to be drawn in so they could cross the bridge. At this time, the flankers fired on the approaching militia column. In response the hills on either side of the road came alive with militia who started shooting at the British. They faced armed resistance the whole back, in every town and along the road. One old gentleman, Hezekiah Wyman, followed the column, staying just out of musket shot and sniped the column continuously. He alone apparently caused about ten percent of the British casualties. He rode a white horse and one British soldier wrote home; "I have seen death today and he rode a pale horse" or words to that effect. Some people (on the web) doubt Hezekiah Wyman's existence but it was a good story nonetheless and typifies the resistance that the British faced.

The story of Hezekiah Wyman (told by another Appleseed instructor)
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By that afternoon, I still wasn't comfortably and consistently attaining NPOA, especially in the sitting position. The scope issue was bothering me still so the instructors made me a pad to raise the comb so I could get a cheek weld. We built the pad out of folded plastic bags and duct tape. These instructors bent over backwards to try to teach you enough to get your Rifleman status. It's hard to over come a lifetime of bad shooting habits. I first learned to shoot in the NCC when I was about twelve or thirteen. In the meantime, I've forgotten a lot, apparently. When hunting, you can always contort yourself to see through the scope and make the shot. Since it's a single shot usually, it's no big deal. To do it shot after shot all afternoon is a whole different story. Keep in mind that this is not Bullseye shooting. They are trying to get you to hit 4 MOA up to 400 yards and to keep doing this for an extended period of time, without a bench or a tripod or any other aids but your body and a sling. They did this with very little pressure. You were not obligated to follow their methods but if you want to do this with any consistency, you'd better.


One of the instructors showing how to attain NPOA in the sitting position.

At the end of the day, I went home feeling like I had been in a fight, cleaned my rifle and went to bed,


Sunday:
Rain! Crap! It rained pretty much all day and the wind was freaking cold. A Rifleman doesn't quit, we were reminded. The wind hadn't abated, in fact, it had changed direction and was quartering the course. If anything it was stronger with gusts moving the muzzle around when in the standing position. Today we did more transitions from standing to sitting and standing to prone. At the end of that time you had to had to shoot your allotted number of rounds in a specified time period. It was taking me forever to get my NPOA in the sitting position and many times, I just got off two shots before the cease fire was called. The transitions killed my scoring. I came close but never attained the score of the previous day and needless to say, I never got the coveted Rifleman patch. I am determined, though to attend another Appleseed event and attain Rifleman. I will be practicing my positions now that I have an idea of what is required.

My team did win one of the contests offered. It consisted of two of us middle-aged guys and a lively little eight year old girl. She was "eight and a half", not eight, she kept reminding everyone. The contest consisted of putting a single round into the most targets in a specified period of time. By Sunday evening, that little girl was shooting like a house on fire. We probably won because she was on our team. She never made Rifleman because she was too little to hold the rifle up in the standing position. It was inspiring to see her dedication, in the miserable conditions we faced and her delight as her groups got better and better.


The prize winning girl with her two helpers. You can see the GI sling still attached to my arm



An Appleseed AQT. This is what you are scored on for your Rifleman patch.

By Sunday evening, my scope mounts started working loose, started losing zero and shifting the point of impact. It wasn't much but enough to start dropping points. By this time we were shooting AQT's almost continuously and there was no opportunity to re-sight the rifle. Excuses aside, I was exhausted by the end of the day and just wasn't up to the challenge this time. I will be next time.

My new Ruger held up really well. Throughout the two days, it never missed a beat, not once. We fired over a brick of ammo and it had one cursory cleaning on Saturday night. I would also like to say that the instructors were absolutely excellent and would help you out any way they could. In all it was a very positive experience. No permission was needed from any Govt. agency or any quasi-bureaucratic organization to hold or attend this event.

Like I said before, I wish all of you could have been here to experience this.

Redcoat Target

Redcoats got scared of these rifles ........? Zeeee my British ancestors

Wow 400 yards...I find fifty meters tough enough. Try doing this with KF ammo . Great experience though, would love to try something like this.

Wow! very nice pictures and very nice report XL.
Looks like all of you guy's have a lot's of fun. " eight and half " year old team member very nice, it's really good to see some young shooter in this sports.
It's bad you have a some problum with your scope.I am sure if you don't have this problum may be you doing really good in this event.Next time for sure.

Thank's again

Baljit

Wow , nice picture & also nice write up. .

Thanx a lot dear xl-target for sharing this. .
I really enjoy it.