Indians For Guns

Hi All,

I had taken up the intent to start trap shooting a few years ago. Needless to say, with the state of affairs in India it does take its time and I had to be patient and persitent.

I've finally managed to get a shotgun license- went through a elongated battle against the agencies that I have posted about in legal eagle. This was inspite of me having participated in 3 GVMs in .22 cateogry. Getting to the point...

I stay in South Delhi so relatively close to the Dr. Karni Singh Shooting Range. The next steps as I see them is to get a play and pay card at the range and also take a membership of DSRA. These things I can get done- not a problem considering I have waited for the license for 2 years!

I primarily intend to use the range guns. I don't think I can afford a truly appropriate o/u at this stage- nor am I experienced enough to do decide what i should be buying. So I will settle for an Indian make o/u that I can also use for practice occasionally when required.

I would appreciate help on the following questions. (some of these might be more appropriate for the Shotgun forum)

1. What do I need to keep in mind when buying an indian make o/u with trap as the primary use in mind:
* Barrel Length?
* Chokes?
* Stock design/fitment
* Ammunition Specification?
*Rib- Is that needed and what design?

In Indian makes I know the option of customisation is limited. Khairuddin is a front runner based on reviews of this forum so I am hopeful inputs I get here will help me improvise as much as i can. As I mentioned earlier the range guns remain the first preference and this is going to be a backup till the time i can take a better decision on the exact type of gun I would need.

2. Hypothetically, lets say I use the range guns and participate in state level competitions and quailfy for GVM. If the GVM is held in Ahemdabad- will I be able to carry the range guns to Ahemdabad? Or will I have to rely on my indian make o/u!

3. Is there a coach someone could recommend to help me start?

Sa_ali has been kind enough to offer to take me to Karni Singh so I am looking forward to his tips.

4. Where can I procure clays for shooting? Will DSRA provide some? Can i simply import them if I want to?

Hopefully one I get the physical license in hand in a couple of days I will initiate the process of application and the visit with Sa-ali will provide me with a lot more information but everyone's inputs here will help me decide better!

Thanks,
SS

Here is little help but shooting trap start from custom fitting a shotgun and so on but it's good to go as a normal shotgun as just starting. Don't be looking at the bead . - Haji

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Hammerhead,

This is helpful but only addresses part of my questions.

Experts, Any advice?

If you are planning to shoot trap, you can even make do with a long barrelled (30"/32" are usual, but some prefer longer/ shorter barrels) tightly choked single barrel shotgun. Read up as much as you can and have the stock altered as per your need, don't think any of the local stockmakers would be able to guide you as to what is required. Of course you would be going in handicapped as you perforce need to knock the bird on the first shot, this may also cause you to get into the habit of shooting "late" as you know you have only one shot. That said, it is well within the realm of possibility to get a decent score using only one barrel. Who knows, you may even hit the MQS!

Ammo specs are 70mm shells with a max permitted load of 24 grams of shot. You can use any no. you wish, though most commonly trap shooters use 7-1/2 no. No Indian company makes these, so you would need to use imported ammunition.

Clays can be procured from NRAI (if you are a member), or (more commonly) many shooters keep importing clays which come up for sale from time to time (at a lower price than NRAI), information on who has clays and selling for how much may be picked up from the range operators at Dr. Karni Singh Shooting Ranges.

DSRA has not been selling clays (so far), but from time to time does provide limited qty. of ammo at the range for use by DRSA members.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

mundaire wrote:don't think any of the local stockmakers would be able to guide you as to what is required

There is stock maker in delhi, by the name of Khaleel, he is very proficient in his job, he is highly recommended and has worked on the stocks of most of the top trap shooters.

If you need his advice let me know, but first, pick up a gun and shoot, then only you will able to decide what you want, every person has there own like dislike and comforts, what might work for you might not work other and vice versa.

Range guns, getting travel permit is very difficult, usually thats only for renowned shots as in this you need to get permit from both Range and SAI.

Forgot all about "coaching". Once you begin going to the range you will realise that everyone there is a coach and has advice to offer, some good/ some not so; of course by the time you learn to differentiate between the two you probably won't be needing their advice. Your best bet is to stick to one person's advice/ coaching and not pay attention what anyone else tells you (however well meaning they may be). A lot of shooting (any discipline) is a "mental game", so don't overlook learning to master this aspect (easier said than done).

@ sa_ali - have heard of Khaleel, but I believe that while he is a skilled artisan he needs to be "guided" as to what exactly needs to be done.

sa_ali is correct, forget about renting any of the SAI guns for out of state competitions; while theoretically possible getting the required permissions (from SAI) is too much trouble (read as - "not possible for an average Joe").

Cheers!
Abhijeet

I am not trying to hijack the thread but from all the above discussion it gives me the feeling that "trap" shooting in India is like that ancient royal game that only maharajas can afford and play and common man just sits on the fence and watch in awe.

The ammo and the birds are not available in India and those need to be imported? I mean come on, here in the US you can reload your shotgun shells at home and the reloader press machine does not cost more than $400 dollars.

I am surprised that no ammo company has thought to manufacture the shells? or clay birds? They don't need license coz they are just clay? Somebody can at least do that? What the heck how difficult can it be?

I am just amazed

SS, good luck to you for the sport and I hope you score the MQS and become a renowned shooter and save yourself from all this BS.

Abhijeet, Thank you. The ammo and clay target information is helpful. I haven't heard of anyone ordering clays online themselves, not sure why. I've summed up that I need to get out there and start- not invest overly in the shotgun to begin with. Khairuddin o/u is a shotlisted gun, don't think I can afford their Lauronas. I am very reluctant to go in for a second hand gun primarily due to lack of knowledge in making a sound choice.

Will let youtube to be the coach to begin with-not to look at the bead being my first lesson!

Sa_ali, I read from your review that Khairuddin guns can have customised stock as well so hopefully can get a good idea if i visit the factory. Any idea on by when they'd be able to come out with their EN-19 models and do they make 30 inch barrels?

Bhargav, I think you answered your question. My guess would be since only Maharajas shoot trap there's not a market enticing enough for any of manufacturers to enter. I've heard of friends in Madhya Pradesh who used to reload their shells so I am sure ppl do it in India, can't comment on the quality and reliability though.

But you are right, it is extremely frustrating to make a start particularly when you are the first one in the family to do so. I've refrained from posting a lot of my experiences in getting a license lest I end up discouraging people. Somethings are just foolish- from what i've heard the range is open 10AM- 5 PM and it's closed on Sundays! It's an expensive sport so I need to earn to practice. But if I practice regularly I can't work and so no pay! I can't recall one incidence/experience that has been an encouragement but I'm slowly moving along like Arjun- aim on the parrot's eye..(read clay pigeon!)

Thanks all for the info- please keep it coming!

Regards,
SS

If you have decided on trap vs. double trap & skeet, then (even on a budget) you could do better than a Khairuddin O/U. Why not look around and see if you can locate a live pigeon SxS gun? They were designed for shooting which is very similar to trap shooting and being SxS go for much less money than O/U's command. They will most probably be 65mm (2 1/2") chambers, but those can be reamed out to accept 70mm (2 3/4") shells - by a competent gunsmith. The biggest problem would be the double triggers, but then even the Khairuddin has double triggers and you will need to overcome that handicap either way.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

SS wrote: Bhargav, I think you answered your question. My guess would be since only Maharajas shoot trap there's not a market enticing enough for any of manufacturers to enter. I've heard of friends in Madhya Pradesh who used to reload their shells so I am sure ppl do it in India, can't comment on the quality and reliability though.
But you are right, it is extremely frustrating to make a start particularly when you are the first one in the family to do so. I've refrained from posting a lot of my experiences in getting a license lest I end up discouraging people. Somethings are just foolish- from what i've heard the range is open 10AM- 5 PM and it's closed on Sundays! It's an expensive sport so I need to earn to practice. But if I practice regularly I can't work and so no pay! I can't recall one incidence/experience that has been an encouragement but I'm slowly moving along like Arjun- aim on the parrot's eye..(read clay pigeon!)
SS

SS, I agree with you but trust me when I was in India and had never seen this side of the world, I use to think that shooting and owning guns is only for the rich and armed forces .. not for common man.

But after living here in the US for years, and comparing things with India, its not difficult and not expensive.

I agree that Trap shooting is bit expensive coz you shoot clay targets and that costs money as compared to shooting at paper targets in an indoor range, but we can at least manufacture them in india

Ok this gives me a motive to research and find out how they are manufactured ! I will post some documentation as soon as I find out. Right now I believe that if the "clay bird" has the right shape and weight then it will gain the aerodynamic property and will work just well like an imported match bird and since we have cheap labor in India, it shouldn't be expensive to mass produce.

</rant> Alright back to the original Topic!

All the best SS bro, go for it.......

IIRC someone used to manufacture them in India, but the quality was not up to par.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Abhijeet, I remember reading on this forum itself that a person who's got a brick making plant manufactured and used them! Production for self consumption!

2 questions remain unanswered:

the Rib of the shotgun- Needed? Not needed? What type? Is it overrated?
O/U vs SXS - how significant a role does each play in trap?

Regards,
SS

Found the answer to the S*S vs o/u discussion at http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1013