Indians For Guns

Hello all,

I am Narendra Bhanot and a new member here. As per universal forum rules, I have tried my best to go through relevant posts before posting. If I have missed out on any post, please forgive me and point me in the right direction. Inspired by the likes of Abhinav Bindra, Gagan Narang, and Col. Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore, I too have decided to take up shooting as a sport. I have shot before, in the NCC, and also at the NDA Khadakwasla range. That was some time ago, and I didnt shoot so great that I can brag about it I have finished my studies and as there are no jobs here, I am coming back. I would be very grateful if the gurus and seniors on this forum will help me. I have four questions, and if I can get answers to those, my path will be definitely easier.

First, the background:
I want to compete in three events: 50 M rifle, 300 M rifle and double trap. I know a licence is required to own firearms, that imports are not allowed for beginners, that renowned shots can import one firearm for every event he/she becomes a renowned shot in, every year... also that the costs of imported firearms in India are ridiculously high, and most imported firearms in India are atleast 25 years old. In my mind, the process is as follows (thank you TenX):

Join a club / state association affiliated to NRAI -> Practice hard using Indian firearms at the range -> participate in Mavlankar Championships -> qualify for NSCC -> shoot well enough in NSCC to qualify as renowned shot -> import world class firearms and ammunition -> next year, again the NSCC to stand on podium! -> National Squad selection!! -> Training camps -> International events -> World Cup!!! -> Olympics!!!

Ok, back to reality. First step is join a club, second step is practice. For practice, I can use club firearms or buy own. I would prefer to buy own, to get used to one particular piece. I know that I have no alternative but the IOF .22 and IOF .30-06, among new firearms, for the rifle events. I also know that there are a number of shotgun manufacturers in India, some of whom manufacture O/U shotguns. I hear a lot of good feedback on this forum about GirdharliLal / Khairuddin / Visco / Modern / MeherSingh.

Now my questions:

1. Do I require a firearms licence to practice using club-owned firearms at the club range?
Answer: A firearms licence is not required to use club-owned firearms at the club range. Clubs may have their own requirements, including firearm licencing.

2. Is a standard, new IOF .22 capable of achieving MQS for NSCC 50 M prone i.e. 560 (bench test / in the hands of a renowned shot)?
Answer: Yes, the IOF .22 is capable of MQS and more.

3. Is a standard, new IOF .30-06 capable of achieving MQS for NSCC 300 M prone i.e. 475 (bench test / in the hands of a renowned shot)?
Answer: Yes, the IOF .30-06 is capable of MQS and more.

4. Which standard, new Indian made O/U shotgun is/are capable of achieving MQS for NSCC Double Trap i.e. 100/150 (in the hands of a renowned shot)?
Answer: None yet.

standard = zeroed, using better sights etc, but not extensively modified by experts like Bobby Sidhu or Rajeev Sharma or Mack The Knife or z375
new = "first hand", not bought used


Thanxx in advance



edit#1 (Oct 8, 2010): added answers to questions 1, 2 and 3.
edit#2 (Oct 10, 2010): added answer to question 4, edited answer 1.

Nice post Narendra , I appreciate your patience and time devoted in this forum before posting and coming up with set of questions. Also I do hope that you will do best and achieve your dream someday. I am trying to answer as per best of my knowledge , may be other member can help you more on this.

1. NO you need NOT to have a firearms license to use club owned firearms at the club range.
2. Tough but not impossible. May be using club provided Brno or equivalent will be a good idea
3. Not sure about performance of IOF 30.06 in competition but what I heared from others that they are not that bad and I know one guy who use it for competition shooting. But again I dont have first hand experience on this so cant comment for sure.
4. Another grey area , I really doubt if there are any indian O/U can shoot consistently. but since its a Trap Event , getting a nice customized well balanced Indian O/U which just fit right to you can do the job , I guess. ( Again I am just guessing )

A1: No you dont

A2+3: a members brother (or some other relative, im not 100% sure) here got a silver in nationala using an iof rifle.

A4: you cant achieve min Q using an indian o/u. I mean I cant gurantee you cant but no one has done it so far (to the best of my knowledge).

Shotgunning and rifle shooting are 2 very different sports and i am aware that in the mavlankars, people from one discipline have got wildcard to other, it is highly unlikely that one would be successful in both.

The standard of shooting in India is quite good and it is extremely unlikely for someone to be good (by competition standards) in both.

TOday people dont even do two shotgun disciplines simultaneously like skeet and trap, let alone DT which is a highly specialised discipline and said to be the most difficult olympic shotgun discipline. (in general i would rank Fitasc and english sporting more difficult than DT)

Even Kim Rhodes the legendary shooter (probably the only one to have both skeet and trap golds) didnt do them simultaneously. (let alone rifle shooting)

Vincent 'the greatest' Hancock (skeet champion) trains at fort Benning and has access to the best rifles and coaches in the world but he was considered 'adventurous' when he made an announcement that he would 'try' Trap. It made news. Skeet shooter 'trying' trap. forget rifles.

I am not aware of anyone doing rifle and shotguns and being good in both (competition level).

I am not trying to dampen your spirit. Anything is achievable. If your aim is just 'renowned shot' it is much more achievable but you have mentioned olympics and world cup in your post so telling you that i am not aware of any DT shooter having reached anywhere in big bore rifle shooting.

The reason im telling you this is because many a times newcomers think shooting is shooting and they can excell in anything.

In fact shotguns and rifles are as different as say hockey and tennis. I think you might have more success if you try shotgunning and golf but shotgunning and rifles... good luck.

This is not a challange but just wanted to make you aware of the facts about shooting. I dont want you to invest a lot of money on a goal which is not easily achievable.

shooter wrote:A1: No you dont

Shotgunning and rifle shooting are 2 very different sports and i am aware that in the mavlankars, people from one discipline have got wildcard to other, it is highly unlikely that one would be successful in both.

The standard of shooting in India is quite good and it is extremely unlikely for someone to be good (by competition standards) in both.

TOday people dont even do two shotgun disciplines simultaneously like skeet and trap, let alone DT which is a highly specialised discipline and said to be the most difficult olympic shotgun discipline. (in general i would rank Fitasc and english sporting more difficult than DT)

Even Kim Rhodes the legendary shooter (probably the only one to have both skeet and trap golds) didnt do them simultaneously. (let alone rifle shooting)

Vincent 'the greatest' Hancock (skeet champion) trains at fort Benning and has access to the best rifles and coaches in the world but he was considered 'adventurous' when he made an announcement that he would 'try' Trap. It made news. Skeet shooter 'trying' trap. forget rifles.

I am not aware of anyone doing rifle and shotguns and being good in both (competition level).

I am not trying to dampen your spirit. Anything is achievable. If your aim is just 'renowned shot' it is much more achievable but you have mentioned olympics and world cup in your post so telling you that i am not aware of any DT shooter having reached anywhere in big bore rifle shooting.

The reason im telling you this is because many a times newcomers think shooting is shooting and they can excell in anything.

In fact shotguns and rifles are as different as say hockey and tennis. I think you might have more success if you try shotgunning and golf but shotgunning and rifles... good luck.
.

Yes Shooter is 100% correct explaining it . Both are complete two different type of event. I fully agree on this.

Thank you, to_saptarshi and shooter for your encouragement and your answers. 3 of 4 in one day is not bad, not bad at all. On a side note (and with no intention of hurting anyone), people outside India seem to have a stronger interest in Indian sports Having said that, the number of views this thread has received is encouraging.

shooter wrote: Shotgunning and rifle shooting are 2 very different sports... it is highly unlikely that one would be successful in both... The standard of shooting in India is quite good and it is extremely unlikely for someone to be good (by competition standards) in both... I am not trying to dampen your spirit. Anything is achievable. If your aim is just 'renowned shot' it is much more achievable but you have mentioned olympics and world cup in your post so telling you that i am not aware of any DT shooter having reached anywhere in big bore rifle shooting... The reason im telling you this is because many a times newcomers think shooting is shooting and they can excell in anything.

Dear shooter, thank you for this insight. Yes, I must admit that in my enthusiasm, I was guilty of the "shooting is shooting" thought My bad. I guess I will have to try my hand for some time in all the three events (without too much outlayof Vita M, i.e. using club firearms) so as to guage what I can succeed in, and then pursue that event with everything I got.

Question # 4 is still unresolved, and I am sure this forum has a lot of shotgun and DT enthusiasts. Please contribute your thoughts.

regarding question 1, it may be possible somewhere, but not in Hyderabad. Here in SAI range they will give .22 LR ANSCHÜTZ rifle only to those who has license.

Thanks, Subal Das,

Are the local clubs allowed to have stricter interpretations of national laws?

gitana it's nice to see that you have taken the time & trouble to go through the rules etc., prior to posting here. I just have one query, could you please explain how all your posts trace back to the same IP as that used by IFG member full_circle?

Use of multiple IDs by the same person is not allowed on this forum...

gitana wrote:Thanks, Subal Das,

Are the local clubs allowed to have stricter interpretations of national laws?

I'm not expert in law, here are two guys, somewhere around, they can turn this thread into a law school in case if they both will come here.

Hyderabad is good place for shooting, range membership not expensive, you can get license easy and shoot great quality german rifle in 50m prone. One guy here already got renowned shot, he put some junk rifle on his license and shoot Anshutz on range. During competitions he borrowed someone's rifle. If I would go for 50m I would never buy IOF 22lr, you can always find Anshutz or Brno in very good condition. Even without having a good rifle you can become renowned shot and then import some custom .22lr Anshutz or Walther.

if you are computer guy you can easy find good paying job in HYD in the same area as shooting range.

best
Subal

I just have one query, could you please explain how all your posts trace back to the same IP as that used by IFG member full_circle?

That really hit the bulls eye

mundaire wrote:gitana... I just have one query, could you please explain how all your posts trace back to the same IP as that used by IFG member full_circle?

Mundaire, shooter, glad to explain. full_circle is my room mate. Rather, the othe way around, I am living here since summer. If you see closely, you will find two computers for our ip address. One is HP dv2500, running Vista Home Premium and mine is a Dell Latitude running XP Pro. We are two seperate individuals, I assure you. We share the same internet connection, the service provider is comcast.

dear Gitana, when you say question 4 is unresolved, what exactly do you mean?

I tried to answer your question but since its still unresolved, lemme tell you in a bit more simple language.

Which cricket bat that costs under 500 rs can be used by Dhoni to score a century?

The fact is we will never know since Dhoni wont try 50 different local bats for 50 international matches to reach a conclusion.

In this example,
Dhoni= renowned shot
century=MQS
Bat=gun

All we can say is that:

Dhoni wont ever use cheap bats

or

Dhoni is so good that he can score a century with any bat even a local bat.


I dont know if you can say for sure that there is ONE particular bat which, in the hands of Dhoni can be used to score a century.

Your question shall remain unresolved.

p.s.: people who compete dont even use lanber/webley/bettinsoli etc so called 'second grade' guns.

Ive got a few questions for you.

Which indian brand shoes can be used to run a 10 sec 100 m dash (in the feet of a renowned runner)
Which Desi brand of golf clubs can be used to play par in golf (in the hands of an expert)
Which Indian brand of wooden tennis rackets can be used to win wimbledon (in the hands of an expert)

Some food for thought. If you can 'resolve' the above mentioned questions, then your question can also be resolved.

For the question 4.
Shooting straight, we dont have indian made 12 O/U available which you use to hit MQS score.
Reason, we have india make in O/U, but following are the draw backs
1. VERY HEAVY
2. Not able to handle heat generated by shooting 50 shots.
3. Single trigger missing

I am going to try 1 make, but still then, atleast on this forum, we are not aware of any Indian make O/U, which you can use.

Thank you shooter, for that "simpler" explanation , and sa_ali for the reasons.

My questions have been answered, thank you very much. I will try my best to share my experiences and (admittedly minuscule) knowledge on this forum as freely as the members here have. Thank you once again.

Welcome aboard mate,enjoy
Regards
Rohan

-- Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:30 am --