India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

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India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by Rottmeister » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:16 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/05/world ... ports.html

Excerpt:
India plans to increase exports of its own arms industry to raise funds to import high-technology weapons systems and upgrade its military forces, the Defense Minister has announced.

India's arms manufacturers ''have the potential to capture a part of the international market in weapons, equipment and systems, and vigorous efforts should be made to utilize this potential,'' the Defense Minister, Krishna Chandra Pant, said Monday. He said India and the Soviet Union were discussing the possibility of exporting goods built here under Soviet license.

The new move comes after Indian military action in the region in the last two years, including an intervention in Sri Lanka to crush a Tamil uprising there and an action against mercenaries in the Indian Ocean republic of the Maldives. India's smaller neighbors have at times expessed concern about New Delhi's military buildup.
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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by cottage cheese » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:24 pm

RottLord wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/05/world ... ports.html

Excerpt:
India plans to increase exports of its own arms industry to raise funds to import high-technology weapons systems and upgrade its military forces, the Defense Minister has announced.

India's arms manufacturers ''have the potential to capture a part of the international market in weapons, equipment and systems, and vigorous efforts should be made to utilize this potential,'' the Defense Minister, Krishna Chandra Pant, said Monday. He said India and the Soviet Union were discussing the possibility of exporting goods built here under Soviet license.

The new move comes after Indian military action in the region in the last two years, including an intervention in Sri Lanka to crush a Tamil uprising there and an action against mercenaries in the Indian Ocean republic of the Maldives. India's smaller neighbors have at times expessed concern about New Delhi's military buildup.
This is 1989....
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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by Royal Gun House » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:32 pm

India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports
By SANJOY HAZARIKA, Special to the New York Times
[color=#FF0000]Published: Sunday, February 5, 1989[/color]

-- Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:49 pm --

pls check date of article

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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by Vikram » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:50 am

Sorry,Rott, but

Oops. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by nagarifle » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:13 am

one more post that should end up in the bin :D
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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by Rottmeister » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm

I noticed the date of the publication of the article before posting it and that's what my question is all about. What happened to the plan?
Last edited by Rottmeister on Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:04 pm

It is expected as usual. We are all well aware of, how the arms import deals are conducted under the cloak of secrecy for "national security". We are all aware of "requirements" taken care of by the arms dealers, in deciding the suitability of arms to be imported. Same "requirements" might not have happened in the reverse order while exporting the arms to foreign countries. :wink:

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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by Rottmeister » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:14 pm

Well, the Babus must understand that if you run away from a problem, it can never get solved.
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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by timmy » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:28 pm

AIA in Australia makes a line of rifles based on the No.4 Mk I action:

Australian International Arms

although I believe some of each weapon is not made in Australia. These are pretty expensive in the USA, but people do buy them. Why IOF could not come out with a modernized 2A/2A1 for export and be competitive, I don't know, but I do think that they would enjoy some success if their marketing and quality were sufficient, and they have a good price point.

Personally, I would be more interested in a .315-based product, but I suspect that the .30-06 would be of interest to a good number of folks here. After all, many of the rifles here are now made elsewhere, and there would be no reason why an Indian company could not compete.

Tell your politicians that they can bring over the guns and cars -- I am interested and welcome such products.

I would really like to see a nice target 22 like the old BSA with a small Martini-Henry action. Heavy barrel and target sights -- yum! Better yet, how about a .22lr and a .22 Hornet version as well?

I think that there is a market here, as people are still willing to buy if the value is there.

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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by Rottmeister » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:30 pm

timmy wrote:AIA in Australia makes a line of rifles based on the No.4 Mk I action:
Australian International Arms
Ooooooooohhhhhh, absolute Stunners :agree:
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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by cottage cheese » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:38 pm

RottLord wrote: India plans to increase exports of its own arms industry to raise funds to import high-technology weapons systems and upgrade its military forces, the Defense Minister has announced.
Hah!...export what? When we can barely produce enough junk for ourselves(Look at the ridiculous waiting periods if one orders from IOFB) how can we send them out?...The only significant exports I could think of are the INSAS, SLRs etc that went to Nepal more or less by way of charitable donation...nothing that would have earned any useful exchange.

Around the same time period as the article (Late 80's-early 90's) the UK MOD actually ordered a huge batch (millions) of 9mmx19mm ammo from IOFB for the British military.... after a consistent series of misfires the whole batch was scrapped for less than $100...! That was about the end of it.

I do recall there were some murmurs of the IOF 9mm pistol available commercially in the US....as expected, the quality is the same.

He said India and the Soviet Union were discussing the possibility of exporting goods built here under Soviet license.
What happened to the plan? .... the Soviet Union ceased to exist... :)
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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by nagarifle » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:58 pm

yap 9mm for the brits, i was there when none fired. so off to the sea they went to feed the fish, since then no cheap imports by the brits from India, textile yes ammo no.
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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by timmy » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:55 pm

My guess would be that there would be some "shaking out," were India to enter the arms market. One thing about this article, I don't think it envisions civilian firearms at all. I think that the arrangements that were proposed were oriented toward the military markets.

This is not necessarily a good thing for the average citizen that wants to buy a firearm. For instance, in the USA, both Colt and S&W make a lot of arms for military and police units. S&W has long been pro-control as a political move to entice the government and police to do business with them. As a business, they must feel that there is more money in making big government contract deals, rather than selling to civilians. Colt, I know less about, but from what I do know, I would say they think the same way. Because I won't support gun companies that favor gun control, I do not buy new S&Ws or Colts for this reason.

Still, I think that companies are generally amoral: Their only morality is money, and if they can make a good profit, they will do it.

I think that, if India would open up manufacture and import/export for businesses, if Indian companies could put out a reasonably priced SxS or O/U, for instance, that offered a good quality/price advantage to US or other civilian markets, they would get buyers. Some companies would go broke because their products were inferior, and some (probably more) would fail because their marketing forces could not succeed in getting distributors (at least, in the USA) to carry their line of goods.

My theory on business is that a good idea is 20% of success and that the other 80% is marketing and sales. At least in the USA, even pure junk can be sold if it is marketed and sold well. We see it all the time.

Regarding the ammo, look at our USA ammo market now: hardly any of it is made in the USA. Some comes from Serbia, some from the Czech Republic, some from Russia. Often it is rebranded as Winchester or whatever, but it is made elsewhere. The marketing groups sell it and it is made where ever. If the Indian government took the wraps off of Indian industry, someone would come along and give ammo manufacture a try. If they could make it to a quality high enough and at a price low enough to entice the marketing groups to bite, then they'd get business.

One example or tactic here would be targeting WalMart. WalMart buys their stuff from all kinds of companies, and they dictate price and specifications. If a good Indian businessman, free of government hassle and laws, could go to WalMart and say: "We will supply you XXX amount of .30-06, .30-30, .22lr and 12ga shotgun a year for $YYY, I'll bet WalMart might be tempted to pick it up, even though they've been moving away from the gun business in many stores.

The same would be true for sporting goods stores, like Academy, Dick's, or even Cabela's.

I may be assuming wrong, but even tho the case of the 9mm for the military, I would bet that if the British MOD had several possible Indian sources and the government didn't give advantages to one factory over another, someone would smell money and make what the British wanted with regards to quality and price, and make some money in the process.

I've got to think that the problem here has to do with government interference, not in abilities or business acumen.

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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by cottage cheese » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:27 pm

timmy wrote: I've got to think that the problem here has to do with government interference, not in abilities or business acumen.
The essence of almost all my incessant IOF bashing has to do with the moth-eaten moribund government farce that is an excuse for an arms industry...not to talk of a defense one. Add to that a virtually complete monopoly(backed by a very restrictive and out dated Arms Act) you'll know what I'm talking about.

As everywhere, and particularly more accentuated in India, is the cancer of Government/bureaucratic management, bungling and corruption. In India it's a parallel culture that takes up needless elbow room in the road to development.

As long as the exclusive unaccountably and sweeping powers of the bureaucracy are not tamed, nothing will change.

Nevertheless great ideas Timmy. The Turkish are already producing reasonable hardware at reasonable costs. Not forgetting the Chinese... Both are finding good markets in the US, I believe.

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Re: India Plans to Increase Arms Imports and Exports

Post by timmy » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:02 am

The Chinese have indeed found a good market in the USA. I have a friend in the electronics manufacturing business -- his company specializes in custom products that larger manufacturers won't make because they require larger runs. My friend's company targets the R&D parts of large companies that need runs of, say, 50 or 200 of something for testing, as opposed to actually making large runs of product for the market.

Anyway, he says that many large companies demand that suppliers show them that at least 70% of their manufacture is Chinese based. The reason for this is that the companies don't want to get tied up in an arrangement with a potential to increase costs over the long term -- such as being committed to US labor costs. When this sort of preferential treatment is built in to the business process, China can hardly avoid making money.

Since Norinco isn't allowed to import to the USA right now, that would seem to be an ideal time for India to make a move to enter our markets. I doubt that anyone here would want to rock Indian-US relations in the current climate!

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