Indians For Guns

Prohibited Bores

What constitutes a PB calibre under law:

(a) Bolt action or semi-automatic rifles of either .303 (British) or 7.62 mm (NATO) (i.e. 7.62x51mm) bore of any other bore which can chamber and fire service ammunition of .303 or 7.62 mm calibre; Since the 7.62 NATO round is almost identical to the .308 Winchester round, that would necessarily mean that the latter is also classified as a prohibited bore (even though the nomenclature is different). However I may add here that some (older) rifles chambered for .308 CANNOT safely fire 7.62 NATO service ammunition, due to the higher pressures produced by the latter.

(b) Revolvers, pistols or carbines of any bore which can chamber .380" and .455" rimmed cartridges or service 9mm or .45 rimless cartridges. FYI the "service" cartridges being referred to above are

(i) .38 S&W Long (rimmed revolver cartridge) aka .38-200 AND NOT the .38 Special or .357 magnum which are non-prohibited bores.
(ii) .455 Webley (rimmed revolver cartridge)
(iii) 9mm Luger/ 9mm parabellum/ 9x19mm cartridge - but the 9mm kurz/ 9mm short/ .380 ACP, .38 super, .38 ACP, etc. pistols are classified as non-prohibited bore (NPB). Pistols chambered in 9mm Largo would also be PB as they are able to chamber & fire 9x19 mm ammunition.
(iv) .45 ACP (rimless pistol cartridge)

(c) Shotguns with barrels shorter than 20 inches are also classified as prohibited bore firearms.

(d) Semi-automatic firearms, other than pistols and revolvers

Arms licenses for any firearm mentioned under (a), (b), (c) and (d) can ONLY be issued by the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA), Central Govt., after receiving a recommendation from the State Home Ministry (of the state where the applicant is normally resident). Needless to say it's almost impossible to procure a firearm that falls under one of these categories! However, since (theoretically) licenses can be (and in some rare cases are) issued for the above mentioned types of firearms - in reality these are not 'truly prohibited' but in stead should be considered as 'highly restricted firearms'.

(e) Accessories for any fire-arms designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by the firing thereof - therefore all suppressors/ moderators (aka silencers) and flash hiders are prohibited.

Prohibited Arms

(a) Firearms so designed or adapted that, if pressure is applied to the trigger, missiles continue to be discharged until pressure is removed from the trigger or the magazine containing the missiles is empty - that is "fully automatic" firearms.

(b) weapons of any description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other such thing, and includes artillery, anti-aircraft and anti-tank firearms and such other arms as the Central Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette, specify to be prohibited arms;

There is NO provision under law for the issue of licenses for the above two categories, thus making them 'truly' prohibited in every sense.

For more details on what constitute Prohibited Bores (calibres) please see - the Arms Rules, 1962 - Schedule I - categories I(b) and I(c).

Also refer to the Arms Act 1959 - Section 2 - Sec. 2(1) (i) and Sec. 2(1) (h) - These refer to Prohibited arms and ammunition BUT NOT prohibited bores which are have been explicitly defined under Schedule I of the Arms Rules as mentioned above.

mundaire, I have seen Chinese .30 Cal. copies of Tokarev TT series pistols available to civilians here.
Similarily .455 ,.357 magnum,9mm short also seem to be NPB.

Kshatriya";p="3898 wrote:
mundaire, I have seen Chinese .30 Cal. copies of Tokarev TT series pistols available to civilians here.
Similarily .455 ,.357 magnum,9mm short also seem to be NPB.

Specific calibres are classified as PB, due to the fact that they were used by Indian security forces at some point of time.

So in the case of handguns, since 9mm parabellum and .38 (rimmed) revolver cartridges are in current use with the police and military forces - these are classified as PB weapons.

Previously used firearms were chambered for the .45 ACP which means that they continue to remain on the PB list, even though they are no longer "in service" with the security forces".

9mm short/ 9mm Kurz which is the same as the .380 ACP, should not be considered as PB, as it is the 9mm parabellum AKA 9mm Luger which is listed as PB.

Also the .38 rimmed I am talking about is the .38/200 - you can learn more about that cartridge by going to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38/200.

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Hi Guys,
I just want to know if anyone has list of probited or Non-Prohibited bores. I am looking for a handgun. I know 32 and 22 are common bores and 9mm and 45ACP are NPB. What about 40,357,44 and other bores . I will appreciate if someone has list of NPB or PB in handguns.
Cheers

Msandhu I'm afraid you have gotten it mixed up. 9mm parabellum & .45 ACP are in fact PB calibres, as are all other service calibres. As per the law, any calibre in service with security personnel is prohibited for use by civilians and licenses for firearms in these calibres can now only be issued by the Union Government MHA. Amongst handgun calibres, besides 9mm & .45 ACP, .38 (rimmed) is also classified as a prohibited calibre.

.32, .22, .357, .44, .25 etc., are all NPB calibres and licenses for these are issued by the local licensing authority (the SDM in the case of districts and DCP (Licensing) in the case of metro cities).

The reason for high prices (in India) for handguns in .32 & .22LR calibres and the preference of most people to own firearms chambered for these guns is simple - ammunition for them is manufactured in India by the IOFB and is widely available at (relatively) reasonable prices. For a handgun in any other calibre one is dependant on imported ammunition, which can be hard to procure, and when available is very expensive.

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Knee jerk political reaction had the Australian Federal government attempt to limit handgun calibres to .38 or less.

Problem was that international centrefire competition allows one to go up to .45 calibre. This became obvious on representations being made by the metalic silouette community who shoot metal cutouts of animals from short range out to 200m - with a handgun. Rifle out to 500m.

Needless to say that the 'open' end of the pistol competition scale a number now use necked down rifle cartridges, with 7.62 / .308 being a popular choice - with appropriate soft reloads, ie less than more powder.

Why not start a club in India for this family oriented shooting discipline? Then affiliate with the international peak body.

Background...
international peak body...
http://www.ihmsa.org/

about the sport...
http://www.ssaa.org.au/competition/pmsil.html
http://www.bctsa.bc.ca/silhouette.html

and remember to store your long arms with the muzzle down - keeps oil and lube out of the action and timber.


Harry

" IFG should have a static page one the topic with a clear link stating 'Prohibited Bore and Non-Prohibited Bore".

I think that`s a really good idea. It could also include other often requested information such as the actual diameters of the various shotgun bores, choke diameters, a conversion of metric chamber sizes and shot weights to imperial ( Sorry about the use of `THAT` word. ) and so on.

.45 ACP is an NPB here in Mumbai.

amk";p="33168 wrote: .45 ACP is an NPB here in Mumbai.

The classification of PB & NPB is NOT a state subject and any local licensing authority endorsing a PB calibre on a NPB license is going contrary to the law... Doubt if such a localised situation will last... What ALL of us should aim to do is have this STUPID NPB/ PB system done away with for good... classifying certain calibres as PB is the absolute stupidest piece of legislation this country probably has....

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Take heart from one thing Abhijeet - things could be worse. In France all military rifle calibres are prohibited, thus The 30-06, 7.62 NATO, 5.56 ( .223 Rem ) .303 Enfield, .30 Carbine, 30-40 Krag, 7.63x39 Russian, 7.62x54 Russian, 7.92 Mauser, 8x57 Mauser, 7m Mauser, 6.5x55 Swedish, 6.5x52 Carcano, 6.5x50 Jap, 6.5x54, 7.5 Swiss, 45-70 Gov and many, many more are illegal.
( I`ve no idea what the handgun situation is - before anyone asks. )

Hi Grumpy,
i would be very grateful if you could link me to the source of the information in your last post.
I recently applied for my european firearms permit in order to take my 6.5x55 boar shooting in France.
A buddy then pointed out to me that military calibres are prohibited for hunting in france, i have scoured the net, UK boards etc... and could not find an actual list of the prohibited calibres, i then came across your post.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks.

Ian

Ian,

From what I understand ANY rifle caliber that has been in use with ANY army is prohibited.I am sure the French are more concerned about the rifle calibers in use with European armies and off course the USA Army.You can add the Japanese Army to the list as well.That would very well cover any service cartridge in use with any army in the world.

The fact that you can`t use your 6.5x55 might not be a bad thing as those French Wild Boar can get pretty big.
I don`t know of a specific list of prohibited calibres in France but you can take it for granted that if a calibre has a military origin it is prohibited.
Here is a list of some calibres that are legitimate for use in France :

.222 Rem
22-250 Rem
.220 Swift
6mm BR Rem
.243 Win
6mm Rem
.240 Wea Mag
25-06 Rem
.257 Wea Mag
6.5 Rem Mag
.264 Win Mag
.270 Win
7mm BR
7mm-08 Rem
7x64
.284 Win
.280 Rem
7mm Rem Mag
7mm Wea Mag
30-30 Win
.300 H&H
.300 Win Mag
.300 Wea Mag
.30R Blaser
8x57 JRS
.338 Win Mag
.338 Lapua Mag
.340 Wea Mag
.35 Whelen
.358 Norma Mag
9.3x62
9.3x64
9.3x74R
.375 H&H

The classic European Wild Boar double gun calibres are the 9.3x74R and the 8x57 JRS. For a bolt action the 9.3x62 is reasonably popular. Both 9.3s are cracking Red Deer calibres also.

I do have an acquaintance who is resident in France and a friend who is a French national both of whom hunt so if you have any further queries I can check with them.
I have to admit that I`m not certain about the status of the .308 Win so will check that out. Logically it should be illegal ....... but since when have politicians/bureaucrats been logical ?

( That should have annoyed penpusher ! )

Remember this discussion Grumps?


Courtesy http://www.internetgunclub.com/phpBB/vi ... 3&forum=46

Supplied by good ol' Mehul.

"A list of prohibited calibres requiring a special license in France - the authorities must have been high when they put the list together...

D E N O M I N A T I O N S C O U R A N T E S
D E S C A L I B R E S
5,45 x 39 mm
223 Rem. ou .223 Remington ou 5,56 mm NATO
6 mm Lee Navy
6,5 x 51 R ou 6,5 mm Arisaka
6,5 x 53,5 mm Daudeteau
6,5 x 54 mm Mannlicher Schoenauer
6,5 mm Mannlicher
6,5 x 54 M.-Sch ou 6,5 mm Mannlicher-Schônauer
6,5 x 58 Mauser ou 6,5 mm Mauser-Vergueiro
6,5 x 57 ou 6,5 x 57 mm Mauser
6,5 x 55 SE ou 6,5 x 55 mm Suédois
6,5 mm Mauser ou 6,5 mm Krag-Jorgensen
6,5 mm Carcano ou 6,5 mm Terni ou 6,5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano
7 mm Liviano
7 x 57 ou 7 mm Mauser
7,35 mm Carcano
7,62 mm M 52
.30-40 Krag
7,7 mm Type 99
7,7 mm Type 92
7,5 x 55 GP 11 ou 7,5 mm Rubin-Schmidt M 1911
7,5 mm Mle 1929 C
.30 M1
30-06 Spring. ou .30-06 Springfield ou 7,62 x 63 mm


D E N O M I N A T I O N S C O U R A N T E S
D E S C A L I B R E S
PREMIERE CATEGORIE - ARMES D'EPAULE (suite 1)
308 Win. ou .308 Winchester ou 7,62 NATO
.308 EH
7,62 mm M 43 ou 7,62 Kalashnikov
7,62 mm Mosin-Nagant
.303 British
7,7 mm Type 92
7,92 Schwarzlose
7,92 mm M 1929
7,65 x 53 Arg. ou 7,65 mm Mauser
8 mm type 66
8 mm Breda
8 mm Bofors
8 x 51 (Mauser K)
8 x 57 J ou 7,92 mm Mauser
7,92 x 33 Kurz ou 7,92 mm Kurz
8 mm Krag-Jorgensen
8 x 63 mm Suédois
8 mm Lebel
8 x 57 JS
8 x 50 R ou 8 mm Mannlicher
8 x 56 M-Sch. ou 8 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer ou 8 x 56 R
8 mm Guesdes
8 mm Murata
8 mm hongrois
8 x 56 R M30S
9,5 mm turc
10,15 mm Jarmann
10,15 mm Mauser
10,40 mm suisse (annulaire)
10,4 mm Vetterli M70


D E N O M I N A T I O N S C O U R A N T E S
D E S C A L I B R E S
PREMIERE CATEGORIE - ARMES D'EPAULE (suite 2)
10,75 mm Berdan
11 mm Murata
11 mm Albini
11 mm Comblain
.43 Spanish
11,15 mm Werndl
11,15 mm Mauser
11,4 mm Werndl M 73
11,43 mm Turc
.43 Egyptien
11,4 mm Brésilien
11,5 mm espagnol
.577/450 Martini Henry
11,7 mm danois
11 mm Beaumont M 71/78
11 mm Beaumont M 71
12,11 mm norvégien
.577 Snider "

Hope this helps.

Best-
Vikram

Thanks Vikram - I`d forgotten that list had even been posted................
I`ve already emailed Allan so I expect he`ll refer me to the same list tomorrow !

I suppose that the reason that the .30R Blaser is doing reasonably well in France is because of the lack of decent .30 cals....... and the lack of heavy bullets for the .300 Win Mag.
Just what the world really needs - a rimmed .30 magnum..............................