Legal Space for Firearm Shooting

[Chandan22]

Gentlemen,

I've read the Arms Act / Rules etc and other stuff I could find looking for an answer to this question

What are the places where I can legally discharge my firearm for an intention other than to cause harm like in a self defence scenario, for something like shooting practise etc.?

Obviously shooting ranges are one answer, but there also I'm given to understand there are all sorts of obstacles like "Open sights are not allowed on electronic targets... non-sports weapons are not permitted..." and other nonsense. this is from personal experience in Delhi.

The question stems from some of the videos I've seen on youtube of people just going to their terrace and firing away. Absolutely unpardonable from a firearms usage point, but I'm sure there is a legality to it also.

So can I go into a jungle and shoot away at a target? Or any a friends farm house? or my basement for that matter? Assuming I'm not breaking any other laws...

Where does one find any legality on place of firearm usage?

Thanks
~C

[yogikshah]

Great Question Chandan!

As a Licenced firearm holder, I always had this question in my mind, I did ask a few people, But never got a satisfactory reply.

How very true, that one cannot just walk into a Range and discharge your licenced firearm, So where does one go to practice?

Any answer from the learned and well experienced members may please throw light on this matter.

Thx,

Yogik

[aadhaulya]

Same question....

Regards

[Armed Defence]

Hello Chandan. Though I am not from India, I would like to give my opinion in this matter, since your and my country have similar criminal laws. Consider my opinion only if you don't find any specific Indian law in this regard, and I am almost sure there won't be any such law. Now, the law which stops us from shooting at our rooftops is the one which bans aerial firing. Common sense tells us that a firing is 'hawai firing' when it done in a populated area even if it has very sparse population. The idea behind the law is to avoid both accidents and terror. So, when someone is shooting at a remote place (agricultural land etc), and that too on his private property, there is nothing illegal in it. Shooting in the jungle etc isn't also illegal, but if the police finds out, they will surely give you trouble because you won't be on your private property. As for the basement, do it only if its 100% safe(ricochet etc) and soundproof. Neighbours shouldn't know it. The question regarding shooting at agricultural land was also asked on our local gun forum and most of the members termed it illegal. But, given the fact that only a handful of gun owners have a shooting range membership in South Asia, isn't it an interesting question that where did all other people learn learn to shoot? Its just that people don't admit it here. I have done shooting twice at my village and once at my friend's farms near Hyderabad. Its a blessing to have such a friend since my own village is far away

[goodboy_mentor]

I would not suggest to shoot firearms in jungles because of many reasons. For example in many forests, tribal people even have legal rights to collect food, fodder, firewood or graze their cattle. Discharging firearms at such place is sure invitation for legal troubles. Even if no such situation exists, there might be some person hiding or sitting behind any bush to attend the call of nature and might get hit.

[Armed Defence]

@goodboy mentor, Shooting blindly into something, not knowing what's behind it, is against gun safety rules.

[goodboy_mentor]

Yes you are correct. I mentioned it as a matter of abundant caution since rifle bullets can travel very long distances and cause harm. In India hunting is not allowed, what would one be shooting at jungles in India is another question mark.

[StampMaster]

I think its important to know the basic of shooting when discharging ammo (depending on the characteristics) and have no error in disposing them off safely.

Farm land, near mountain etc with no public or animal activity would be one way. I personally go to friends farm, we were able to find an area with a small mountain of about 10 feet height. So when the bullets pass through the target it get hit somewhere in the sand and with no ricochet.

Happy shooting

[Chandan22]

Gentlemen,

I carry a reasonably high opinion of members on this forum when it comes to safe and proper use of firearms. Conversely, I would also apply all due safety when firing. So even in the jungle, not only would I be careful where I fire, I will scout it out, try to find a space with a backstop, and given that I'm reasonably decent at shooting, would ensure basic precautions.

That said, the question is still unanswered. The law has NOTHING on this, but that doesn't mean one can do as one wishes, for there is always the chance that some unknown, unrelated obscure law could come into play. Jungle dwellers rights are irrelevant, as I have an equal right to be there as them. I"m talking of urban jungles, green belts etc, not tribal infested areas.

Also, if in my basement, why should i bother about neighbours as long as I'm doing things safely and there is NO law against it?

Interesting and valid questions...

~C

[Armed Defence]

@Chandan, Anything that's not illegal is legal. As regards to shooting in the basement, if the neighbours hear the the sound of firing, you will be deemed to have committed the act of aerial firing

[aadhaulya]

My Arms License says that it is illegal to fire in the air during marriages or religious functions. The License may be cancelled for doing the same.
It also says that the firearms can be used for the purpose that it has been issued for. As most of the Licenses are being issued for 'Self Protection' only it is illegal to use it even for sports purpose (Legally speaking), but as usual it depends on the cop you come across while using your gun. I came to know of the following incident a few years ago.
Most of my neighbors are retired "Defence Officers. These guys took their guns (that had not been fired for ages), to a friends farm out of the city limits to fire a couple of rounds. Within some time the cops landed up at the farm maybe on some villager's complaint or their patrolling team just heard the shots being fired.
These guys had a tough time explaining the purpose of being there and firing their guns.
Though, nothing happened eventually as all the people were very senior retired officers. But imagine that if there were some other younger people involved, they would not have been let off so easily.
I believe that the Local Police Station does not like people in their area to possess arms. They can't stop you from getting a License but would love to get a chance to have it cancelled.

Regards

[Armed Defence]

@aadhaulya, Practicing for self defence is not sports I think. As regards to uncles from your neighbourhood, if one is shooting at place where there are people living nearby or there is a road, then what is the purpose of going there? When I went at my friend's farms for shooting, it was just outside his small village so the people were ok with it. What I am trying to say is that it is the responsibility of the host to take care of these things, because it is he who knows about the place. I agree that the gun laws in my country are not are not as strict as in India but if you excercise precautions, you can easily do this thing. Telling people that it's illegal is not a solution. Because, admit it or not, this is how almost all of the people in your and my country learn to shoot. As far as the police is concerned, if the police tells you refrain from doing something, it doesn't make it illegal.

[bennedose]

Let me strike a slightly different note here - but these views are mine and I do not disagree with most of the views expressed above.

I am one of those lucky Indians who got an arms licence ages ago pretty much the first time I applied for it. Unfortunately what I wanted was a licence for a rifle for target shooting and I got a handgun licence. (How that happened is another story) It turned out that at that time the local shooting range was closed and there was no place to shoot. I hated the idea of sitting with a pistol in my cupboard and 20 rounds doing absolutely nothing - and in fact at that time I had not even had any formal firearms training although I had been plinking with air guns for over 20 years. Eventually I allowed my licence to expire and never even bought a weapon simply because there was no way I could have fired it anywhere.

One and a half decades later there is a good firing range where I can do all the shooting I want. But its too late now. But I have a shooting range for Air Rifles up to 20 meters right here at home and I shoot every day of my life - so the pleasure of shooting is something I can get any time. I do not have the pleasure or freedom to shoot more powerful guns over longer ranges unless I use the rifle club range. I only use the pistol at 25 meters because I don't like the prone position for shooting rifles.

As regards a firearm for self defence - I never really wanted one - I always wanted to shoot for the pleasure of shooting. I admit that my personal situation is different from that of others so I cannot speak for them. But if you need a weapon for self defence and you acquire one - you would probably also need a nearby gun club to practice shooting. If you simply enjoy shooting and want to set up an indoor range or a terrace shooting area, air guns is the way to go.

[aadhaulya]

@aadhaulya, Practicing for self defence is not sports I think. As regards to uncles from your neighbourhood, if one is shooting at place where there are people living nearby or there is a road, then what is the purpose of going there? When I went at my friend's farms for shooting, it was just outside his small village so the people were ok with it. What I am trying to say is that it is the responsibility of the host to take care of these things, because it is he who knows about the place. I agree that the gun laws in my country are not are not as strict as in India but if you excercise precautions, you can easily do this thing. Telling people that it's illegal is not a solution. Because, admit it or not, this is how almost all of the people in your and my country learn to shoot. As far as the police is concerned, if the police tells you refrain from doing something, it doesn't make it illegal.

@Armed Defence, my point is that the cop is the boss. I am sure it must be the same in Pakistan as well.
Here all offences under the 'Arms Act' are non bailable and the person will have to go to jail for at least one day till he gets bail (that is easily given in most cases under this act). Also arrest without warrant is possible, if the police feels that the person may not appear for investigation or if they feel that the arrest is important to instill confidence in the general public by taking action. It is also not necessary for the witnesses (even though they may be false witnesses) to give any written statement to the police. Once the case is in court the witnesses would most likely not appear or would deny being witness to any such incident.
In most of these cases after some years it is proved that the charges were false the victim is free to file a case against the police and in some cases have even got compensation from the personal salaries of the police personnel involved. But most of the people are happy to get acquitted and do not want to take any action against the police.
Therefore, the police here generally does not tell you to refrain from doing something. They want you to settle or ...................

Regards

[goodboy_mentor]

Jungle dwellers rights are irrelevant, as I have an equal right to be there as them. I"m talking of urban jungles, green belts etc, not tribal infested areas.

Also, if in my basement, why should i bother about neighbours as long as I'm doing things safely and there is NO law against it?

Interesting and valid questions...

~C

The use of word "infested" in this context is obnoxious and offensive. It is used with pests and parasites and not with law abiding humans, doing what they are supposed to do. The tribals also called adivasis(adi = first/ original, vasis = inhabitants) are the original historical inhabitants of this land. It is others who forcibly occupied their lands, converted them into slaves or others who fled to safety of jungles to save their life and honor and came to be known as adivasis.

By no means the legal tribal rights are irrelevant. Equal rights does not mean trampling rights of others. Same goes for urban jungles, green belts etc. all are public property/ place. Any member of public has the right to be there and be without terror. Discharging guns in any public property/ place(unless lawfully notified as a firing/ hunting/ shooting range) may amount to terrorem populi, violation of terms and condition of license and not taken kindly by courts.

Besides the right of being not in terrorem populi, neighbors also have legal right of not being affected by any kind of noise pollution, including those from gunshots. This would violate sound pollution laws. Hope this helps.