Indians For Guns

Hello All,

So I've run into another issue with the Delhi Police Licensing Unit. My wife had applied for a license for self protection, she was called in for a personal hearing today.

The LA grilled her about her need for a license and then arbitrarily decided that he will make her a retainer on my license and not give her a fresh license. She informed him that I only have one pistol and that travels with me when I'm away for work. He responded that I also have a shotgun and that she should learn how to shoot that. She told him that she can not operate the shotgun and requested the LA to either approve her application or give me permission to endorse another revolver/pistol on my license so that she could carry the revolver/pistol with her. He refused.

This is absolutely crazy, I cant even begin to wrap my head around the flawed reasoning that these folks are using to evaluate the application. I'm not even sure how I can appeal this, since he has not rejected her but basically modified the purpose of her application.

I'm planning on sending the following RTI, what do you guys think.

Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules and regulations which allow the Licensing Authority from neither Accepting nor Rejecting an Application for Fresh Arms License.

Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules and regulations which allow the Licensing Authority to deny a license to an applicant and ask them to be a retainer on another person's license.

My wife sent a letter to the LA stating that she does not want to be a retainer on my license, since she will not have access to the pistol in my absence and she can barely lift the shotgun.

The folks at the LA showed me the comments in my files and said that it's neither been accepted nor rejected, but the order is to modify the terms of my license to add a retainer. I should be getting a letter to this effect.

against the arms act to modify the act or force one person to have a retainer against ones will. or force a applicant to become a retainer. appeal and go to the governer. since can the LA force someone or ask an applicant to become a retainer?

nagarifle wrote:against the arms act to modify the act or force one person to have a retainer against ones will. or force a applicant to become a retainer. appeal and go to the governer. since can the LA force someone or ask an applicant to become a retainer?

Yup, that was the purpose of the letter. I had visited the LA to pick up my TL and was asked to provide my License so that the Retainer formalities could be completed. I informed them that I will be sending them a letter declining this generous offer!

I'm tempted to send out letters to some newspapers. My wife's reason for applying was "self-protection. My husband travels out Delhi for more than 20 days in a given month, thus leaving me alone at home in Delhi. Also, recent events in Delhi highlight the rising crime against women in Delhi and I would like to be able to protect myself if such a situation ever arises."

for them there is no security issue, its crazy man

There is no such provision to compel an applicant to become somebody else's retainer or modify the conditions of another license without any reason under the Arms Act. If you already have something in written that is asking for becoming a retainer etc., they have already given you in writing that they are not following Arms Act or applying their mind. You may just ask for legal reasons for refusal of application under Arms Act in writing and proceed to the next step under the Arms Act i.e. appeal to the appellate authority. They will either give the reasons or say that application is still under processing or some excuse.

goodboy_mentor wrote:There is no such provision to compel an applicant to become somebody else's retainer or modify the conditions of another license without any reason under the Arms Act. If you already have something in written that is asking for becoming a retainer etc., they have already given you in writing that they are not following Arms Act or applying their mind. You may just ask for legal reasons for refusal of application under Arms Act in writing and proceed to the next step under the Arms Act i.e. appeal to the appellate authority. They will either give the reasons or say that application is still under processing or some excuse.

GBM,

I'm glad to hear your opinion on this. My wife has sent them a letter saying that she does not want to be a retainer and that she is hoping that her case will either be approved, as per Section 13, or Rejected, as per Section 14.

Another RTI has been sent asking for a copy of her file/note made by the LA/police verification, etc.

This is the same LA who had threatened to reject my application for a DBBL Shotgun, stating that he is only rejecting me to teach me and my friends (NARGI, IFG) a lesson. (Discussed here -> http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p198480) He made notes in my file to this effect, and later changed his mind and granted the license to me. The funny thing is, I never got a rejection of acceptance letter!

I'm going to wait for something in writing.

Thanks

Yes do not get into any kind of arguments or ego clashes with these egoistic people, let them say whatever they want, it matters nothing under the Arms Act. Just maintain your cool and politely follow the next logical step under the Arms Act.

I agree with you there. This guy keeps my IT return (for Rs. 347.00) on his desk and shows it to anyone who claims to be associated with IFG (a few folks on this forum have mentioned this)

Giving IT returns to any licensing authority in India is not a good idea. They have no legal right to demand your IT returns under the Arms Act.

goodboy_mentor wrote:Giving IT returns to any licensing authority in India is not a good idea. They have no legal right to demand your IT returns under the Arms Act.

True, but it's mandatory here in Delhi. Forget IT returns, their licensing handbook actually mentions that licenses should only be given to business men who have huge returns and cash transactions of more than 5 lacs a day.

On top of this, they demand proof of property ownership in other states for increasing Area of Validity.

Yes all this has zero legal value under the Arms Act 1959. Most people submit to all this nonsense "requirements" because they "hope" by following all this, their application for license will not be rejected. But we all know what is actually happening.

Forget IT returns, their licensing handbook actually mentions that licenses should only be given to business men who have huge returns and cash transactions of more than 5 lacs a day.

This is an interesting piece of BS indeed . Yes pardon my french .
So if I my cash transactions are of Rs 4,99,999 a day , I have no threat . I transact one rupee more .. and Voila ! I am on the hit-list of every criminal .
Also, as if , only people who transact and carry huge amount of money have a threat to their life .

On top of this, they demand proof of property ownership in other states for increasing Area of Validity.

This is actually in violation of the Section 14 (2) of the Arms Act which mentions , " The licensing authority shall not refuse to grant a license to any person merely on the ground that such person does not own or possess sufficient property ."

Finally , your wife has applied for Arms License . The LA either grants the license or refuses it . If the LA grants , it's well and good , If the LA refuses , you or your wife can demand the reasons for the refusal in writing . The applicant has been given the power under the Arms Act . Please refer Section 14 (3).

And then armed with reasons for refusal , you gear up for a legal battle .

Regards

F-N-Five-Seven

kandarp wrote:I agree with you there. This guy keeps my IT return (for Rs. 347.00) on his desk and shows it to anyone who claims to be associated with IFG (a few folks on this forum have mentioned this)

this is ridiculous. what are they trying to prove

rahulbdelhi wrote:

kandarp wrote:I agree with you there. This guy keeps my IT return (for Rs. 347.00) on his desk and shows it to anyone who claims to be associated with IFG (a few folks on this forum have mentioned this)

this is ridiculous. what are they trying to prove

who is the boss! they who are supposed to be the servants to the nation are the bosses. that's the point. no accountability = BOSS