Indians For Guns

Hello,

I had sent an RTI query to the Delhi Police with the following questions

1. Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules and regulations governing eligibility for arms license.
2. Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules and regulations governing rejection of an arms license application.
3. Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules and regulations used to assess the ‘Specific Threat’ level for an arms license applicant.

I received the following response today

1,2&3 You may refer to Arms Act, 1959 & Arms Rules, 1962 which are available in the open market.

I'm pretty frustrated with this reply since both these acts do not mention 'Specific Threat', or provide guidelines to assess an applicant's threat level.

So my question is, should I appeal this? I mean technically they are giving me incorrect / false information.

Thanks,
Kandarp

before you appeal you need to have the other documents etc which relates to 123, that is the police own documents which says what ever it says and which is not
mentioned in the RTI response. as your proof that you have been given misleading information etc

Hi Kandarp ,

You can definitely appeal to the Appellate Authority , if you feel that the reply given to your queries are false or not to your satisfaction. From what I see , is that you have asked for information of the rules and regulations , and all they have done , is that they told you to buy a book of the Arms Act 1956 & Arms Rules 1962 from the market .

I would also suggest you to be more specific to your queries , For example , ask them to quote the sections of the Arms Act 1956 which makes an Indian citizen eligible for the Arms License .
What I am trying to say is that if you are more specific , it would be more difficult for them to avoid your questions .
So don't make things easy for them .

FN-Five-Seven

Yes you may appeal regarding answer to your question number three, since the answer appears incorrect or false. But they might claim "good reason" mentioned in Section 13(3)(b) of Arms Act 1959 is equal to "threat" which is actually not the case. As per my understanding "good reasons" mean protection, sport, crop protection and target practice, which are already mentioned in Section 13(3)(a) of Arms Act 1959.

nagarifle wrote:before you appeal you need to have the other documents etc which relates to 123, that is the police own documents which says what ever it says and which is not
mentioned in the RTI response. as your proof that you have been given misleading information etc

I have a letter from them rejecting my Arms License application based on the lack of a 'Specific Threat'. Since the Specific Threat clause or ways to identify does not exists in the Act or Rules...

FN-Five-Seven wrote: I would also suggest you to be more specific to your queries , For example , ask them to quote the sections of the Arms Act 1956 which makes an Indian citizen eligible for the Arms License .
What I am trying to say is that if you are more specific , it would be more difficult for them to avoid your questions .
So don't make things easy for them .

I know what you mean, Its just challenging to frame a question like that. I'm trying to figure out how they identify the 'specific threat'

goodboy_mentor wrote:Yes you may appeal regarding answer to your question number three, since the answer appears incorrect or false. But they might claim "good reason" mentioned in Section 13(3)(b) of Arms Act 1959 is equal to "threat" which is actually not the case. As per my understanding "good reasons" mean protection, sport, crop protection and target practice, which are already mentioned in Section 13(3)(a) of Arms Act 1959.

I hope not . That would be uncool!

send goodboy a pm

nagarifle wrote:send goodboy a pm

PM sent.

Picked up a certified copy of SO 264 from the PIO's office.

It's titled "Issue of Arms Licenses, Standing Order No. 264" and seems to outline the exact procedures that their office needs to follow. I'm going to scan these and post them here but a few things that caught my attention were

Under the section for Individual Licensee (NPB): Documents Required they required the following (they were other points but I'll just post these for now)

• Financial Status proof like Income Tax Return/Salary Slip.
• In case of threat to life being a ground for seeking an arms license copy of FIR/Complaints to justify the threat if any.
• Weapons Handling Certificate

There is also a section with Delhi Police's recommendation as to who is eligible and who should be rejected.

Also, I believe that most of the clerks in their PIOs office were aware of my various RTIs over the last few months. I spoke to one of them at length regarding the problems I'm facing and why I'm harassing them. He mentioned, and I disagree with him here, that they have unlimited discretion due to Section 13 (3b) of the Arms Act.

(b) a licence under section 3 in any other case or a licence under section 4, section 5, section 6, section 10 or section 12, if the licensing authority is satisfied that the person by whom the licence is required has a good reason for obtaining the same.

I respectfully told him that everyone has their own interpretation of the law and I'm just trying to determine how they managed to assess my Threat Level. I received no response.

This seems to be an internal handbook used by the Delhi Police Licensing Unit to evaluate and dispose of Arms License related requests.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxOgFV ... Vg0ZUpMMEU

So they've been amending the law to suit their own biases? Looks like executive overreach and a sound basis for filing an RTI to me!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

I'm filing an appeal to that as we speak.

I'm basing it on three points

a) They had told me that the 25/50 quota is determined based on this SO-264. Well I've read this a few times and the only place where it mentions a quota is for renowned shooters.
b) They had told me that the Rejection criteria for an arms license is defined under Arms Act / Rules. Even though this document clearly had its own set of guidelines.
c) They had told me that the Eligibility criteria for an arms license is defined under Arms Act / Rules. Even though this document clearly had its own set of guidelines.

But the RTI appeal / application will not get us anywhere. What we need is a writ in the High Court or Supreme Court challenging this.

Here is the first draft of my Appeal. Please let me know if you have any thoughts...

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxOgFV ... XNjVW9IaTg

The questions asked were

1. Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules and regulations governing eligibility for arms license.
2. Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules and regulations governing rejection of an arms license application.
3. Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules and regulations used to assess the ‘Specific Threat’ level for an arms license applicant.

and the responses were

1,2&3 You may refer to Arms Act, 1959 & Arms Rules, 1962 which are available in the open market.

(PS. Mods, Sorry for jumping between posts. Please feel free to merge this with the original topic here -> http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19352)

Kandarp,

I sincerely commend your efforts. Before you apply, please ensure that the questions are not open ended and allow them to get away without replying as they did the last time.All the best.

Vikram wrote:Kandarp,

I sincerely commend your efforts. Before you apply, please ensure that the questions are not open ended and allow them to get away without replying as they did the last time.All the best.

Vikram,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm meeting with a lawyer early next week to ensure my questions are as direct and specific as possible.

I will post the final draft here before sending it'
Thanks.