Indians For Guns

Hi there,
Its the first time I'm writing into the forum and I'm a newbie on this site. Having gone through some of the earlier posts, I did get some valuable inputs and would like to take this oppertunity to congratulate my fellow members.

I would like to get some info on the following topics:

1. The standard rules for procuring a lisense to open up an Arms Dealership. Please do excuse my lack of understanding of the Ams Act and would really appreciate if someone could simply guide me through the entire process.

2. Is it possible to import Air Guns/Pistols, Air Soft guns and Replicas for original and classic models, for the purpose of resale? If yes, then what are the legalities involved?

I guess I'll wait for replies on the above queries before I get into specifics of the same.
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Regards,
Abhimanyu

Abhimanyu,

Welcome to IFG.The no. of gun dealers that are allowed to operate in a state are based on the population.So its one dealer for every X no. of people.The state Home Ministry then divides this bet. the districts if the state.You would apply for a dealership and for safe custody and repair in the following forms Form XI(to repair) Form XII(to sell) Form XIV(safe custody) subject to the limit to the total no. of dealers allowed in your district.The application would have to be made in the form that you would use for getting a gun license(you would get it from the licensing authorities office).This would be followed by a police verification prior to a license being issued.For getting a license to repair firearms you would be required to give an experience certificate( in repair of firearms) from a dealer authorised to repair firearms.

Re. import of air rifles for sale,at the moment import of air rifles are allowed only for members of national,state or district rifle associations.

penpusher

Oh I never knew that there was a formula for calculating the number of dealers in a district.

...... applying for a gun dealership licence... Quite a few shops in Delhi have closed in the last three or four years and two very famous shops are likely to down shutters soon.

So before u make a decision you should make a detailed study . Or u might feel u boarded the wrong train.

AC

Thanks penpusher,
But I believe that a few dealers in places like Mumbai and further a few in Bangalore are presently dealing in sale of imported Air Guns and Pistols. The brands which seem to be readily available are Dyna, DAizy, Bretta,etc. and the others can be arranged if a prior order is placed. Naturally, the entire billing process is legal which leaves me slightly confused. I did a bit of research and was told that the guns arrive in SKD i.e semi knocked down condition and and since these dealerships have lisesnces to repair as well, they put it all together and ready for sale. Also, the billing reads low powered guns which are allowed for imports and resale as compared to the high powered variety. However, there isn't a possible mechanism to confirm the same. Ofcourse, what I just mentioned is from my own research could definitely be wrong. But this definitely is confusing and the Arms Act doesn't help much, isn't it?

AC, I think you are absolutely right when you say that a large number of arms dealerships are shutting shop. I'm taking the liberty of assuming that you have been a part of this set up, so perhaps you could also guide me to procure a dealership.

Cheers,
Avi

Hi Avi,

I deal with a lot of gun dealers . Its my business which brings me in close contact with many of the dealers. ... and most of them don't look to be a very happy lot.

I dont want to be rude but how do they sustain themselves has always been a mystery for me. Only after seeing the state of affairs did i mention that u need to make a survey before u step in. Off the topic it looks it is the easiest to get a dealership licence in U.P. ...Places like Kanpur and lucknow has over 400 dealers I am told.

AC

I did a bit of research and was told that the guns arrive in SKD i.e semi knocked down condition and and since these dealerships have lisesnces to repair as well, they put it all together and ready for sale

This is BS that dealers give out to mislead people like you and mean.They get these air rifles/pistols from people who have made it a business of going abroad and getting air rifles/pistols in their baggage to India and then sell it to these dealers(most of these people get these air guns from Dubai).Or from shooters and now members of rifle associations who can import air rifles/pistols.If you are a member of NRAI/State/District rifle association you can import an air rifle/pistol of .177 caliber after the payment of duty that is about 35%.You will find details on how to import air rifles/ pistols in the Airguns forum here.

Also, the billing reads low powered guns which are allowed for imports and resale as compared to the high powered variety.

This is because the notification exempting air guns from the provisions of the Arms Act and Rules,covers only low powered air guns.

penpusher

Abhimanyu, at present there are no new imported air-rifles available for sale in Bangalore. As a result of which, I am told, the prices have jumped from 30,000 to 40,000 for Dianas and Weihrauchs. Mind you, they are only taking orders as they have nothing to sell.

Or from shooters and now members of rifle associations who can import air rifles/pistols.

penpusher, that wouldn't work out for the dealer because if you import from the U.K., say a HW77K, the landed cost after freight, duty and handling charges works out to well over Rs.28,000.00 I also doubt most target shooters would bother doing this. If at all they do, it will almost always be for their own personal use. Could be different up north but nothing of the sort has come to my attention via the grapevine.

Mack The Knife

penpusher";p="21097 wrote:

I did a bit of research and was told that the guns arrive in SKD i.e semi knocked down condition and and since these dealerships have lisesnces to repair as well, they put it all together and ready for sale

This is BS that dealers give out to mislead people like you and mean.They get these air rifles/pistols from people who have made it a business of going abroad and getting air rifles/pistols in their baggage to India and then sell it to these dealers(most of these people get these air guns from Dubai).Or from shooters and now members of rifle associations who can import air rifles/pistols.If you are a member of NRAI/State/District rifle association you can import an air rifle/pistol of .177 caliber after the payment of duty that is about 35%.You will find details on how to import air rifles/ pistols in the Airguns forum here.

Also, the billing reads low powered guns which are allowed for imports and resale as compared to the high powered variety.

This is because the notification exempting air guns from the provisions of the Arms Act and Rules,covers only low powered air guns.

penpusher

Mack The Knife Bana";p="21100 wrote: Abhimanyu, at present there are no new imported air-rifles available for sale in Bangalore. As a result of which, I am told, the prices have jumped from 30,000 to 40,000 for Dianas and Weihrauchs. Mind you, they are only taking orders as they have nothing to sell.

Or from shooters and now members of rifle associations who can import air rifles/pistols.

penpusher, that wouldn't work out for the dealer because if you import from the U.K., say a HW77K, the landed cost after freight, duty and handling charges works out to well over Rs.28,000.00 I also doubt most target shooters would bother doing this. If at all they do, it will almost always be for their own personal use. Could be different up north but nothing of the sort has come to my attention via the grapevine.

Mack The Knife

In reply to this,I must add that I have in the past I too have purchased airguns from these so called dealers...and frankly find it less stressfull dealing with them
Am I getting ripped off....well as Mack The Knife mentioned if the landed price of the HW77 is approx 28k..I think paying about 2000 more to avoid all the bother is
worth it!
Am I doing the right thing buying from these agents...well no! But till we get this mindset (on gun ownership and the shooting sports in general )of our Govt.officials changed,I have no choice!I do not intend waiting till things change,as I want to enjoy the sport passed on to me by my father and hopefully I pass on to my son one day!

OK I am open to all kinds of viewpoints now!.....Fire away!

Hi there,
I accept what Mack The Knife and penpusher have mentioned, but just to a slight twist in the tail...lol
Now, I'm sure we'll agree that to participate in most state/national level competitions, we need to procure a good quality gun, and unfortunately, it implies an imported model. Now to add to that, I presume that the genuine documents and authentication of the gun would be equally necessary, atleast that sounds logical to me. Now the carriers as mentioned by you would definitely not be in a position to supply the authentic documents or the technical spec. of the piece. Which brings us back to the beginning, how do I get to import Imported Models in India, ste up a dealership and facilitate resale of the same? and how is it that a few people are selling these guns without the relevant documents, something which I think should be termed as illegal???
Cheers,
Avi

Hi Avi,

I got an original purchase receipt with the gun,but not a customs duty receipt. I am not too sure if this is a pre-requisit for entry into any state/national level competitions! Maybe our fellow members can advise us on this. The tec.docs are all included in the original box,or u can always download the same via the internet.My guess is the reason this grey market flourishes is because there is no permit required to own airguns in India.

Take care

Which brings us back to the beginning, how do I get to import Imported Models in India, ste up a dealership and facilitate resale of the same?

I don't think that would be possible under the present circumstances. Airguns in .177" calibre can only be imported for personal use. Any bulk import or very frequent individual imports from you is going to raise eyebrows in certain quarters that are best avoided. The only way you could import airguns in bulk is if you get an import permit for the same.

Mack The Knife

Max two pices in a year without any disharmony in your life. they have been filing the imports at the postal customs. I was sort of shocked by this red taped yet very effective back check. Yes they walks through a mile of files and come back with everything on imported airguns.

It is still cheaper to import one for yourself than go to the agents. Just use the correct courier service.

dev

Dev,

Can you throw more light on what "correct courier service" means in this context?

Somehow it never ceases to amaze me that such an importantfacet of import of Air Guns/Pistols, esp. since so many of our Indian Shooters are winning accolades around the world, has been left as the grey area under the Arms Act. As a few of you'll mentioned, I did get a fair idea of what it is like to get permission for getting an imported Air Pistol, and for the rest who plan to trudge along, its absolute mayhem. There is a complete lack of understanding and the babu's in those chairs have absolutely no idea, all I managed to get outta them was..."Please submit an application and we'll forward the same to the concerned person. U can call in 5 days to check on the status of the application filed." And further, they treat you not like someone looking for some authentic documentation ad permissions but like someone who is on a Mission to Kill......Arre Saab, What will you do with the gun license?...and one of our very aged babus went to the extent of suggesting that most of the foreign makes were easily available in the illegal market and securing a valid license will only make the purchase more difficult.......That is just great....
And all I wanted was so clarify my position as someone who is interested in importing foreign Air Guns/Pistols for the purpose of resale.....Lol