Indians For Guns

I am planning on filing an rti inquiry to know the following:
1. Are delhi police following criteria of arms act 1959 and arms rule 1962 for addition of weapon to an existing arms license holder?
2. If not, what extra criteria are they following?
3. If a national level shooter, who is not a renowned shot, asks for addition of weapon, in the same discipline as that in which he/she played nationals in, asks for an addition; is that being granted? Subject to the 3 weapons plus one .22rifle for rifle club members?
4. How much time will the process take?
5. Why is arms licensing not covered under esla, as shown on delhi police arms licensing branch website?

Any tips guys?

Safarigent,

How about this,

The word Act shall refer to the Indian Arms Act ,1959 and the word Rules shall refer to the Indian Arms Rules,1962.

1.Is it not true that the issue of arms licensing is governed by the Indian Arms Act ,1959 and Arms Rules,1962?

2.Is it not true that the criteria for the grant of a license is the one as laid down in the aforesaid Act and Rules?

3.Is it not true that the disqualifications for obtaining an arms license are the ones laid down in section 14 of the aforesaid Act and any allied Rules?

4.Is it not true that in matters of granting an arms license,the DCP licensing is only an implementing authority and can not formulate his own methodology for granting or refusing a license?

5.Is it not true that the aforesaid Act and allied Rules do not require a threat to life as an essential requirement for grant or refusal of a license?

6.Is it not true that as long as the person is not disqualified by provisions of Section 14(1) of the Act he is entitled to a license?

7.Is it not true that as long as the person is not an applicant for a prohibited firearm,is not prohibited by this Act or by any other law in force or is not of an unfit mind or is not unfit for a license under this Act,a licensing authority can only refuse to grant a license under Section 14(1) (b) (ii) as reproduced here under:-

"where the licensing authority deems it necessary for the security of the public peace or for public safety to refuse to grant such license"

8.Is it not true that where a licensing authority refuses to grant a license U/s 14 (1)(b) (ii) by virtue of Section 14 (3) he has to give in writing the reasons for refusal of the license.Or in other words he has to pass a speaking order justifying the refusal of the license?

9.Is it not true that the DCP licensing is only exercising powers delegated to him under the Act and Rules passed by the Parliament and can not act beyond the scope of the Act or Rules and is not competent to interpret the words contained in the Act and Rules?

10.Is it not true that the Act and the Rules framed there under were to give expression to the objectives for which the Act was passed including (a) (ii) [Objects of the Indian Arms (Amendment) Bill (No.49 0f 1953)] "that weapons for self defence are available for all citizens under license unless their antecedents or propensities do not disentitle them for the privilege"?

11.Please inform as to how many resident of Delhi, who were granted an arms license during the last 5 years, had a clearly identifiable threat to their lives? A clearly identifiable threat implies a specific threat by a terrorist /anti national organization or criminal element.

12.What is the total number of licenses granted in Delhi during the last 5 years? Please give a year vise list.

AND if you want to tweak their tail,how about this

13.How many incidents of violent crime were prevented by the police from happening in the last 5 years?

14.How many of those murdered during the last 5 years had a threat to their lives from a terrorist/criminal organization?

15.Is the police able to protect each and every resident of the city?

16.If the DCP licensing has been refusing licenses to resident on the ground that the police of the city is so efficient that they should apprehend no threat to their lives from criminals,can the heirs of those killed in crime sue the Delhi police for dereliction of duty?

Wow!
May i use these?
This might just get them to combust spontaneously upon reading the questions!!

Safarigent wrote:May i use these?

That is what my intent was.

Kind of you.
I am only wondering why someone hasnt already done this?

Safarigent wrote:Kind of you.
I am only wondering why someone hasnt already done this?

Pure laziness.They will belly ache about it but not do anything.

First of all to make things clear: I am on your side.

Hate to say this guys but you are not going to get anything (not much) out of this specially for question like:

Safarigent: 1 & 4 and even 2 and 3 on some grounds

WTP: 4, 9, 13, 14, 16 as well as other questions too.

Under the light of the recent amendments to the RTI act the applicant cannot ask for the opinion or advice of the PIO or put up questions, rhetorical or otherwise or ask to "create" information.

The applicant may only ask for documented information that already exists on records: in documents, printed information, CD, maps etc etc.

The above is correct to the best of my knowledge (not belief) and if needed I can dig up the amendments etc but I am sure you will not ask me to and some other members who are good at this will clarify.

The reply you will get from the PIO will be that such query will not be entertained under section so and so of the RTI act.

Now after waiting for 30 days (it will only be in the last couple of days that you will get the reply to your application, this usually happens) go file an appeal to the first appellate authority. Pretty frustrating, isnt it.

I am simply suggesting that you rephrase the above points so they do not appear like question and more like: please give copies of ...........in relation to.... AND Give a copy of the rule under which ...... happens OR like WTP questions 11 and 12.

The RTI act has been castrated with a couple of amendments and you will get all sorts of B*** S*** sections / amendments under which a reply to your requests / questions is being turned down. It still works but you have to wield it carefully.

People who frequently file RTI's or have at least filed a few will verify all of the above information.


Thanks.

I agree with all the points Rajat has said. PIO cannot create information or answer interrogatory questions, he can only provide existing information in his office.

Thanks rajat and gbp,
How would you then frame my questions?
Its exactly for this kind of help, that i posted here.
Thanks in advance

I do not think RTI is going to move these thick skinned people. Another member on this forum had done RTI with Delhi Police, got useless replies as usual.

Well we gotta do something.

Please do it immediately and set the ball in motion and dont wait to see some body bell the cat, Jai HIND

Safarigent,Rajat may have a point there.However,I would suggest that you still go ahead and file the RTI application.If you do not get the right answer,you can always file another application.Should not cost more than Rs.60/- in total

How about these questions:
Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents used to decide eligibility for arms license and further additions.
Please provide a certified copy of any and all rules used to disqualify an applicant for arms license or for addition of weapon on existing arms license.
Please provide certified record of number of deaths/ injuries in the last decade, year wise attributed to licensed weapons in delhi state
Please provide certified record of number deaths/injuries in the last decade, year wise attributed to unlicensed firearms in delhi state.
Please provide certified copy of any file notings/rules/ circular that make only threat to life a valid reason to apply for arms license/addition of weapon for self defense.

Guys please feel free to tweak these questions.
I tried coming down to bare bones basic questions from which a pio cant wriggle away
Cheers

Please see below:

1) Please provide a certified copy of any and all documents listing rules governing eligibility for arms license and further additions.

2) Please provide a certified copy of any and all rules under which an application for arms license or for addition of weapon on existing arms license may be rejected.

3) Please provide copies of documents listing the number of deaths/ injuries in the last decade, year wise attributed to licensed weapons in delhi state

4) Please provide copies of documents listing the number deaths/injuries in the last decade, year wise attributed to unlicensed firearms in delhi state.

5) Please provide copies of documents documenting unlicensed firearms seizures and number of arrests made in this context.

6) Please provide copies of any file notings/rules/ circular which make threat to life the only valid reason to apply for arms license/addition of weapon for self defense.


# 3, 4, 5 might still be turned down stating that the PIO will only give information in the existing form and will not list it or modify it to be in any other form apart from which it exists i.e. it will be deemed "creating" information. Such are the replies you might get OR you will get a letter to deposit a sum for a few hundred copies.

But the above questions are still worth a try.