‘CERTIFICATE OF CAPABILITY TO HANDLE FIREARMS’

[mbsolan]

In reference to guidelines in notification no.v-11016/16/2009-Arms Ministry of Home Affairs dated 31-3-2010:-
‘’The “prescribed time” under Section 13(2) of the Arms Act, 1959 shall be not less than 60 days, within which the police authorities will be required to send their report about (i) the antecedents of the applicant, (ii) assessment of the threat, (iii) capability of the applicant to handle arms, and (iv) any other information which the police authority might consider relevant for the grant or refusal of licence.’’

Police SHO’s are asking New applicants in Himachal Pradesh to submit ‘CERTIFICATE OF CAPABILITY TO HANDLE FIREARMS’ for completion of Police verification from any of the following :-
1. Arms & Ammunition Dealer.
2. Repairer of arms.
3. Retired Police Armourer .
4. SSB.
5. NCC.

The problem became highlighted when a retired colonel from the army was asked to submit this certificate by the SHO to prove he has capability to handle firearms. He was asked to contact police armorer for issue of certificate.

My question is
1. How does an applicant for new arms licence prove his capability to handle arms?
2. Whether this certificate is a mandatory requirement for issue of a new arms licence?
3. Which authority or agency is authorised to issue such a certificate in the absence of any training school in the state where new applicants can learn handling of firearms.
4. Whether this requirement relates to internal assessment by the police or a requirement that needs to be fulfilled by an applicant himself?
5. How are the licencing authorities of other states handling this requirement?

[Sudhakar4Sharma]

I think it’s an area worth considering as ‘need’ for a fire arm is one thing and the ‘capability’ to handle it safely, as well as understanding the responsibility is another. I hope the licensing authorities and the government also create facilities, so that citizens can develop competence to demonstrate the desired capability.

A short fire arm handling course is as important as those hundreds of varifications conducted prior to the grant of a licence.

[Hammerhead]

It's called "GUN CONTROL" where rich and prosper walk away and you and me got screened out as unstable to handle the firearms, you know the " British Way of Ruling " - Haji

[tirpassion]

In that case, the Govt. of HP should open arms handling schools where one can take a course and obtain a certificate.
How can an Arms and Ammunitions dealer, a repairer be considered apt to deliver a certificate of capability? Why can not the shooting clubs issue the same certificate? After all, there are more responsible people in the shooting clubs so far as gun safety is concerned.

The whole thing is ridiculous!!!
tirpassion

[mbsolan]

its shockingto hear that a retired colonel who served in the armed forces for more that 35-40 yrs and who must have handled and fired all existing service bores is being asked to prove his capability of handling a firearm for clearance of his verification for an arms licence.

I dont understand if this point relates more to internal assessment by police authorities whether they think an applicant looks fit to handle firearms or this point needs effort on the part of applicant by submit of relavent proofs.

[varunik]

Can they ask for something like that?
NCC or SSB? Okay, Why would NCC or SSB (services selection board?) give a document like that?
And considering, a 40 yr old random guy who was once a NCC cadet when 22yr old, how can it guarantees that he remembers gun control

[xl_target]

I don't believe there is a requirement in the law for this. So these babus are just making up new restrictions as they go along. If there is no requirement written into the law, then technically it is not legal for them to ask a person to submit something like this. I'm sure that if challenged in court, this could be struck down.

All those of you who are insisting that people should have to submit to this or that requirement to get a permit are just plain wrong. This sort of thinking normally should not come from people who live in a democracy. Regardless of what your personal beliefs may be, they do not matter (nor should they) one iota. Only the law as written matters. Only in repressive regimes or military dictatorships do babus get to make up the law as they go along. In a Parliamentary democracy only legislators get to write laws.

Since there is no requirement in the law, these officious little babus are making up stuff to justify their personal biases. While it might be desirable for all licence holders to have training, if it not written into the law, they cannot ask for it no matter how justifiable the reason in your mind (or their minds).

Upon exiting the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin was asked by a woman, "What kind of government have you given us?" Franklin responded with one of the most famous quotations in history, "A Republic, if you can keep it." If you let these unelected functionaries of government make up law, you will eventually lose your republic or what is left of it. Vote out the guys in power who let them get away with this and you might have a chance on keeping your republic. The "chalta hai' attitude is not conducive to keeping your republic.

[Safarigent]

There is no requirement like that.
Its amazing the kind of c@*p people take without a fuss in this country!
If they do ask for any such thing, show them the law, or file an rti query.
Simple

[mbsolan]

seeking kind attention of all seniors in this forum to throw some light on the interpretation of the point.

(iii) capability of the applicant to handle arms
In reference to guidelines in notification no.v-11016/16/2009-Arms Ministry of Home Affairs dated 31-3-2010

(a)are we talking about police internal assessment on how they assess the applicants capability to handle firearms,

or

(b)are we talking about medical fitness report to prove applicant is physically fit to handle firearms

or

(c)are we talking about proving some extra capability of an applicant to handle firearms by submit of certificate of training to handle firearms

kindly clear the confusion

[mbsolan]

In some other cases it is found that village Panchayat Pradhans are issuing this certificate on their letter head that the applicant is familiar with firing a gun and maintenance.
1.Is that legal??
2.can a panchayat pradhan issue such a certificate in the absence of any guidelines on which agency can issue such a certificate?

[varunik]

In some other cases it is found that village Panchayat Pradhans are issuing this certificate on their letter head that the applicant is familiar with firing a gun and maintenance.
1.Is that legal??
2.can a panchayat pradhan issue such a certificate in the absence of any guidelines on which agency can issue such a certificate?

No! An IPS can.. but how can a pradhan or sarpanch guarantee this?
thats utterly stupid

[varunik]

@GBM
thanks for correcting me, i meant an IPS can, if required, but a sarpanch cant...

well, if they are asking for such thing, how can SSB give a letter? I am confusd. :/

secondly, what all documents should a person gather and send with his/her application (like a RTI copy, previous cases where courts have ruled in favor) to make sure authority doesnt bluff him by denying on a useless and lame basis, so that one can save time and money in court.

[goodboy_mentor]

My question is
1. How does an applicant for new arms licence prove his capability to handle arms?
2. Whether this certificate is a mandatory requirement for issue of a new arms licence?
3. Which authority or agency is authorised to issue such a certificate in the absence of any training school in the state where new applicants can learn handling of firearms.
4. Whether this requirement relates to internal assessment by the police or a requirement that needs to be fulfilled by an applicant himself?
5. How are the licencing authorities of other states handling this requirement?

1. No such requirement under Arms Act 1959 or Arms Rules 1962.
2. No since no such requirement under Arms Act 1959 or Arms Rules 1962.
3. No such authority under Arms Act 1959 or Arms Rules 1962.
4. No such requirement under Arms Act 1959 or Arms Rules 1962. The only legal role of police in the entire licensing process is to find if there is any criminal record of applicant with them.
5. Personally I am not aware.

In some other cases it is found that village Panchayat Pradhans are issuing this certificate on their letter head that the applicant is familiar with firing a gun and maintenance.
1.Is that legal??
2.can a panchayat pradhan issue such a certificate in the absence of any guidelines on which agency can issue such a certificate?

1. No it is not legal or required under Arms Act 1959 or Arms Rules 1962.
2. No. Even such guidelines contrary to the provisions of law if they exist are illegal to that extent.

mbsolan I agree with the opinions of Hammerhead, xl_target and Safarigent. The main question is are the affected people willing to fight this matter to nip the evil in bud or going to accept all this nonsense which has no end if allowed to continue?

The enjoyment of fundamental rights cannot be put at discretionary whims and fancies of government babus or the executive. I have explained the matter at number of places in this forum that getting an arms license is not a matter of your "need" but it is your right since arms are acknowledged as fundamental right under Articles 19 and 21 of the Constitution. Since arms are fundamental right, that is why there is corresponding fundamental duty of every citizen under Article 51A(d). I have already tried to explain this here http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 81#p166098 There have also been some High Court judgments stating arms are part of Article 21 and thus arms license is not some kind of privilege accorded or "granted" by government.

In short what they are demanding is not required under Arms Act 1959. As far as question of some ill advised or illegal guideline or notification of MHA is concerned, no guideline or notification can override the words or the intent of law in question, in this case Arms Act 1959. The intent of Arms Act 1959 can be read from Objects and Reasons of Arms Act 1959. There is also a related Supreme Court judgment on this matter of guidelines, it can be read here http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17298

No! An IPS can.. but how can a pradhan or sarpanch guarantee this?

Not even IPS, not even Chief Minister or Governor or Prime Minister or President.

[goodboy_mentor]

well, if they are asking for such thing, how can SSB give a letter? I am confusd. :/

In order to "ask" for something officially they have to be empowered by the law first. For example Section 19 of Arms Act 1959. And in order to "give" something officially they should be competent to do the same under the law.

secondly, what all documents should a person gather and send with his/her application (like a RTI copy, previous cases where courts have ruled in favor) to make sure authority doesnt bluff him by denying on a useless and lame basis, so that one can save time and money in court.

Proof of age, identity, residence and photographs should be sufficient. May attach RTI copies if it serves some purpose or is related to the matter. Since you are in Uttar Pradesh, if you desire may attach copies of recent writs of Allahabad High Court where it has said that arms are part of Article 21.

[jayanta mukherjee]

I totally agree with Goodboy_mentor on this that there is absolutely no requirement under the Arms Act and Rules to warrant the certificate.
it must have been the brainchild of some of our Babus who maybe on some visit to Canada.