Consulate retruned the firearm application

[Indians4Guns]

I had applied with Indian consulate in Chicago for the firearm license as a foreign tourist traveling to India. Had to send total of 30 faxes, and finally I got an email saying that consulate does not issue firearm license, and that one would disclose the firearm at the port of entry, and then apply with local authority". Once the license is issued, the firearm can be retained from the custom"


Now, the question to you guys is, what does local authority means, in India I used to live in a small village of 50,000 people, so do I apply with my village police department or at the Surat city police department as my village fall under Surat district.

Does having connection in the law enforcement system help?

Thank you.

[Anand]

It appears that you may be confused regarding the temporary import of firearms into India by a non-Indian citizen.

First off the Indian Consulates are not the Licensing authority for Firearms to be (temporarily or permanently) imported into India.
The advise in general, of the BATFE in the USA or other law enforcement agencies in foreign countries is that the prospective exporter of the firearm(from their country of current residence) should obtain a letter of authorization to import or a no objection letter to import a firearm from Consulate of the destination Country.

The Licensing Authority in India is usually the District Magistrate/Collector in Districts and the Commissioner of Police in Cities. In your case, you would first have to get permission from the USA authorities to temporarily export a firearm from the USA. This will usually be granted only if there is "adequate paperwork" from India to show that this import into India is not in anyway illegal. This is where the Consulate's letter comes in. Then you would have to have a license issued in India to be able to collect the firearm from Customs assuming that you managed to get the firearm from the USA. The trick is that the Consulate may be unwilling to give you that letter unless you already hold a firearms license in India.

For those who are importing a firearm on Transfer of Residence, the Rules may be slightly different where the Customs may confiscate and hold the imported firearm while you apply for a license. I am not sure of this,so please verify this. This is what the Consulate seems to be refering to in your case.

Please also be advised that a temporary Arms License/ "Traveller's Tourist License" may be granted only in the case of sporting purposes such as shooting competitions and the paperwork must be provable as in your entry into the same.
Regards,
Anand

[Indians4Guns]

In your case, you would first have to get permission from the USA authorities to temporarily export a firearm from the USA. This will usually be granted only if there is "adequate paperwork" from India to show that this import into India is not in anyway illegal. This is where the Consulate's letter comes in.

In the reply, the consulate official did not mention anything about any authorization letter. But this is something new I heard from you so I am even more confused now. It says "as per the norms you need to declare the firearm with customs authorities on your port of entry and then you need o apply with local authorities (police department) for the license, after getting license you may claim your firearm from the customers authorities"

Who would like me to verify this information with? A lawyer in India?

[Anand]

Okay let me be more explicit: Exporting a firearm from the USA permanently, will require an Export License from the US State Department in the case of sporting Shotguns and by the Department of Defense in case of all other firearms and ammunition. This must be applied on your behalf through a Licensed Exporter who must be a US Citizen. There are dealers who specialize in getting these Export Permits.

The "paperwork" required to be attached to the Export License application will generally include an "Import Authorization" from the Licensing authority in India or at the least a Letter from the the concerned Consulate that makes it clear that an Import Authorization is not required under that country's laws. For example: since India already has a facility for import of a firearm under TR Rules, a separate Import Authorization(as required above) may not be routinely granted by the Authorities in India.

So this situation must be made clear to the US Export Licensing Authorities.This explanation must be done through a letter from the Indian Consulate to whomsoever it may concern. AFAIK the Indian Consulate does not routinely give any letters, you will have to write to them explaining why you want such a letter.

For the temporary export of firearms by from the USA by "US persons" the US Customs may be able to help you better.
Regards,
Anand

[nagarifle]

why not ask for a RTI with the consulate? for the above notification, if you want to shake the pillar of bull shit

[GOI/MHA CIRCULAR No,PV, circular 673 and 684/VII/410/4/64- dated 16th JUNE 1964 AND 9TH OCT1964

[sa_ali]

[GOI/MHA CIRCULAR No,PV, circular 673 and 684/VII/410/4/64- dated 16th JUNE 1964 AND 9TH OCT1964

Doenst that circular very clearly states "only or the purpose of sports and no other purpose"

[nagarifle]

not true please read the third line from the end 1st words says..........

[Indians4Guns]

@nagarifle, I am sending them faxes again regarding this. The person who replied me via email, was asking me to visit some online blogs, which stated that such firearm license are issued by authorities in India. So, as reply, I am sending them faxes with links to travel websites that say bona fide tourist licenses are issued by Indian Embassy/Consulates.

I am sure, I will have to send 30+ faxes on both their faxes. Apparently, when they start running out of the printer cartridges, that they reply.

I assume they seem confused about TR and temporary license for foreigners. The steps they suggested are of TR.

Any suggestions from anyone will greatly help.

Thank you.

[Indians4Guns]

First off the Indian Consulates are not the Licensing authority for Firearms to be (temporarily or permanently) imported into India.

Many of the travel websites do mention that bona fide tourist can obtain such license from Indian Embassy which is valid for six months from the time of endorsement.

But in their reply to me, the consulate official said "Please refer to your application for issue of firearm license for foreigners travelling to India. As per the norms you need to declare the fire arm with customs authorities on your port of entry and then you need to apply with local authorities(Police department) for the license, after getting license you may claim your firearms from the Customs Authorities. Consulate do not issue such license please. We are sending your documents back."

The advise in general, of the BATFE in the USA or other law enforcement agencies in foreign countries is that the prospective exporter of the firearm(from their country of current residence) should obtain a letter of authorization to import or a no objection letter to import a firearm from Consulate of the destination Country.

If consulate issues no objection certificate, do I then need any sort of license to carry a firearm in India or not?

[nagarifle]

ok lets make one thing clear, TR this is how its done.

be outside INDIA for least 2 years. not including short visits.
have owned a legal arms for least 1 year in the country of residence.(not INDIA)have the invoice.

(now here is two ways of getting an Indian licence.apply and obtain before coming to India on TR. or arrive and deposit arms with customs and get licence)

Arrive with firearm In India, show licence and invoice-pay duty and leave happy.
or deposit firearms with customs get licence pay duty and leave.

now let say if one is coming as a tourist then how can one obtain a firearms licence within 1 day or arrival? can not be done thus the MHA have empowered head of Indian mission to issue licences.

all government babus tend to as it is;tought then (this skill is not natural one -but has to be learned in the school of deadbrainers) to pass the buck, ignore and deny all knowledge etc. so they need to be put under perssuer to do what is right. RTI asking a leading question would do the trick, because they want you to leave them alone to play cards on the pc rather then type out your licence. what ever you send make sure there is a record of it. if they say that they can not issue then ask for it in writing,

other wise there is not much you can do. unless you get a licence form your home town issuing authority in India.

[Indians4Guns]

RTI asking a leading question would do the trick, because they want you to leave them alone to play cards on the pc rather then type out your licence. what ever you send make sure there is a record of it. if they say that they can not issue then ask for it in writing,

Thanks. That is what I am going to do. I am also sending them the scanned image you posted on here. And asking them to send me a written notice if they deny.

Unless you get a licence form your home town issuing authority in India.

If I am applying directly to my local police department in India, do I need to be there, or I can have some one submit the application in India. Also, the app should be submitted to police or the DM's office?

Thank you.

[nagarifle]

Unless you get a licence form your home town issuing authority in India.

If I am applying directly to my local police department in India, do I need to be there, or I can have some one submit the application in India. Also, the app should be submitted to police or the DM's office?

Thank you.[/quote]

not sure if the police or the DMs office issues it please check with family members for all the info you seek. the normal routine is for you to make application either at police or DM office, a police report/interview may or may not take place, report goes to issuing authority and they will then decide they may or may not call you for an interview.

sorry can not help on this one.

[Indians4Guns]

The normal routine is for you to make application either at police or DM office, a police report/interview may or may not take place, report goes to issuing authority and they will then decide they may or may not call you for an interview.

Okay thank. I will have some one follow up with the DM's office. I will have them make it clear to DM that the applicant is not in India right now.

Thank you.

Let me know if any one else have any suggestions.

Thank you.

[nagarifle]

having burnt the midnight oil (know i can say you o me let take a look at this little baby, which you will find of interest.

http://www.abhijeetsingh.com/arms/india ... e_1_5.html

Indian Arms Rules 1962
Short title
Interpretation
Classification of arms or ammunition
Licensing Authority and forms of licences
Appellate Authorities
1. Short title
(1) These rules may be called the Arms Rules, 1962.
(2) They shall come into force on the 1st October, 1962.
Comments : The rules of procedure are intended subserve the substantial justice and they are not an end in themselves.

2. Interpretation
In these rules, unless the context otherwise require:-

(a) "Act" means the Arms Act, 1959 (LIV of 1959);

(b) "appellate authority" means the appellate auhtority referred to in rule 5;

(c) "authority" or "officer" means, except where otherwise specifically provided in these rules, the District Magistrate or such other officer as may, from time to time, be notified in the official Gazette by the Central Government;

(d) "company" has the same meaning as that assigned to it in the explanation under Sec. 33; (e) "dealer" means a person who by way of trade or business, manufacturers, converts, repairs, proves, tests, sells, exports, imports, or transfers or keeps for sale, repair or test arms or ammunition;

(f) "District Magistrate" includes -

(i) Omitted by G.S.R. 947, dated 24th August, 1973.
(ii) in relation to any district or part thereof, an Additional District Magistrate or any any other officer specially empowered in this behalf by the Government of the State concerned;
(iii) in relation to a Union territory, any officer specially empowered by the Central Government in this behalf;
(iv) in relation to the tribal areas of Assam, specified in Part B of the table appended to para. 20 of the Sixth Schedule to the Constitution, a Political Officer; and
(v) in relation to the suburbs of Calcutta, as defined by notification issued from time to time by the Government of West Bengal in their official Gazette under the Calcutta Suburban Police Act, 1866 (Bengal Act II of 1866), the Commissioner of Police, Calcutta and a Deputy Commissioner of Police, Calcutta, nominated by the State Government in this behalf

(g) "form" means a form as set out in Sch. III;

(h) "port" includes an airport;

(i) "schedule" means a schedule appended to these rules;

(j) "Sub-divisional Magistrate" includes Additional Sub-divisional Magistrate, Sub-divisional Officer and Additional Sub-divisional Officer.

3. Classification of arms or ammunition
For the purposes of the Act these rules, "arms" or "ammunition" shall be of the categories specified in cols. 2 and 3, respectively of Sch. I and references to any category of arms or ammunition in these rules shall be construed accordingly.

4. Licensing authority and forms of licenses
Licenses under Chapter II of the Act may be granted or renewed for such purposes, by such authorities, in such forms and to be valid for such period and in such areas as are specified in Sch. II, subject to such conditions as are specified in that Schedule and in the license:

Provided that the licenses granted or renewed by a licensing authority may be signed by such officer subordinate to that authority as may be specially empowered in this behalf by the State Government.

5. Appellate authorities
(1) For the purposes of the Act and these rules the appellate authority to whom an appeal shall lie from an order of the licensing or other authority specified in col. (1) of the table below shall be that specified in the corresponding entry in col. (2) thereof:

Authority Appellate authority
(1) (2)
a) Tahsildar; or 1st or 2nd class Magistrate, or Sub-divisional Magistrate.
District Magistrate.
b) Additional District Magistrate, District Magistrate. (i) Commissioner of the Division or, in an Union territory, the Administrator thereof, or

(ii) in the State of Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Kerala, the Board of Revenue or

(iii) in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, Rajasthan, West Bengal, Gujarat and any other State, not being a State mentioned in entry (ii) above, in which there is no post of Commissioner of a Division, the State Government.
c) Commissioner of Police.
State Government.
d) Commissioner of the Division or, in an Union territory, the Administrator thereof.
Central Government.
(e) Head of Indian Mission, or Political Officer.
Central Government.
(f) Other specially empowered officers. Authority that empowered.

[Anand]

"(e) Head of Indian Mission, or Political Officer."

"First off the Indian Consulates are not the Licensing authority for Firearms to be (temporarily or permanently) imported into India."
Obviously did not do my home work well enough, also my wife calling me a "know it all" now makes sense

It has now become clear to me that there are in fact one or two things that even I may not know...
Good job Naga and thanks for taking the trouble with the research!!
Regards,
Anand