Indians For Guns

Friends, its very pity that our Govt. is incapable of supplying civilian arms for protection. We have to wait for months and years for getting one from IOF. Our constitution gave us the right to self defense, but our govt. cant give weapons for self defense. Why dont we gather and go for PIL in Court of Justice against the prohibited of import of fire arms.

There are many grounds which will help us:

* Incapability of Govt. to supply Fire Arms on Time.
* Black Marketing of Old imported Arms. ( Usually sold for 4 to 5 times of actual price )
* Our Constitution gave us the right to Self Defense.
* If terrorist can import and bring arms to our country, Don't we have right to self defence, are we born to become
target for their target practice.


Guys if am wrong please guide me, or else lets plan together for PIL.

There are many far better grounds to file a PIL than merely on ground of self defense. Our Constitution guaranteed to us not only the right to self defense but has also guaranteed arms as fundamental right. Arms(includes firearms, ammunition and explosives) are guaranteed Right to Freedom of citizens under Article 19 and Right to Life and Liberty under Article 21 of the Constitution. If one reads and understands the following it will become more clear:
1) http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 38#p150397
2) http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 56#p149914

If one reads the following http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 30#p146250 it becomes clear that this restriction on import of firearms by arms license holders is not only illegal but also unconstitutional.

i decided to go for PIL, can you help me in forming a group for PIL in High Court Nagpur Bench ?

Will not be wise to file a PIL directly, first contact the appropriate authorities and try to get a permission from them to import arms.. while applying for permission tell them that you are a license holder and the you want import a particular type of weapon and the reason for doing that is there isn't any available in the local market at a reasonable cost.. and when they dismiss or application for granting permission for import of arms then you file a PIL... the reason for that when you file PIL the representatives of the government can say that he did not approach us and present his case as we could have granted him the permission under certain circumstances to allow the import and your PIL would go out of the window

i decided to go for PIL, can you help me in forming a group for PIL in High Court Nagpur Bench ?

It is not that you can file a PIL only, you may file a writ instead. There are many members on this website from Maharashtra, you may contact them via PM and form a group. If you want to discuss anything with me, feel free to contact me via PM.

Will not be wise to file a PIL directly, first contact the appropriate authorities and try to get a permission from them to import arms

Your idea is not bad that he should try to get a rejection first and then approach High Court. I am not trying to contradict your idea, but is the legal issue in question merely about getting a "permission"(license for import)? I think the legal issue in question is not about getting a license for import. Why is the license for import needed in the first place when the due process of law has been followed as per Arms Act 1959? And Section 10, Sub Section 1, Clause a) of Arms Act 1959, says that if his arms license allows him to own a particular firearm, he has the right to import a firearm of that particular category without a license for importing it. Why State wants to interfere over and above Arms Act 1959 and place additional burden of license for import?

goodboy_mentor wrote: I think the legal issue in question is not about getting a license for import. Why is the license for import needed in the first place when the due process of law has been followed as per Arms Act 1959? And Section 10, Sub Section 1, Clause a) of Arms Act 1959, says that if his arms license allows him to own a particular firearm, he has the right to import a firearm of that particular category without a license for importing it. Why State wants to interfere over and above Arms Act 1959 and place additional burden of license for import?

I get your point, but my point here is to find out that if I as license holder were to import a weapon of a permissible bore then on what grounds will they confiscate the weapon as the arms act allows me to import a weapon.

And has anyone i.e. any license holder other than a renowned shot tried to import a weapon after 1986?

All I am saying that if were to file a PIL and then someone from the government comes and says that we generally do not allow import of weapons, but if someone requests for a permission then we allow them and we do this because we want to keep a track of imported weapons to make sure that they do not get in to wrong hands (which is a completely reasonable argument) then all them time and money spent on filing the PIL would go down the drain.

If you do not want to apply for permission; then one can always give a notice of intent to the Ministry of Finance stating that he is a license holder and as per the Section 10, Sub Section 1, Clause a of Arms Act 1959 he can import and weapon and since firearms available in the market are at the minimum 20 years old and are sold at 4 to 6 times the original price. Hence he will be importing a weapon of a permissible bore and if they (MoF) have any objections they should get back to him within 30 days from the receipt of this notice of intent and if they do not then it would assumed that they do not have any objections.

If they get back to him then we would know the exactly what objections they have and according challenge them in PIL and if they do not then go ahead and import the weapon and if they do not clear the weapon at the customs then sue them.

on what grounds will they confiscate the weapon as the arms act allows me to import a weapon.

DGFT Policy says that firearms are restricted goods and need an import license. If one does not have import license, his firearm is confiscated.

And has anyone i.e. any license holder other than a renowned shot tried to import a weapon after 1986?

May read the Supreme Court judgement in Anirudh Singh Katoch Vs. Union Of India & Ors. on 5 May, 2010. Personally I am in disagreement with the judgement on various grounds. Related views of swajan can also be read at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=141414

we want to keep a track of imported weapons to make sure that they do not get in to wrong hands (which is a completely reasonable argument) then all them time and money spent on filing the PIL would go down the drain.

I do not think it is reasonable argument because the job of tracking of weapons and ensuring that they do not fall in the wrong hands is already being done very well by Arms Act 1959. Is the government contending that whenever any firearm/ ammunition is imported, the customs release the firearm/ ammunition to persons who do not have arms license issued under Arms Act 1959? If government wants to track import of firearms it can simply direct the customs to maintain records of imported firearms. Where does the need arise for additional burden to be placed on an existing arms license holder to get another import license?

If you do not want to apply for permission; then one can always give a notice of intent to the Ministry of Finance stating that he is a license holder and as per the Section 10, Sub Section 1, Clause a of Arms Act 1959 he can import and weapon and since firearms available in the market are at the minimum 20 years old and are sold at 4 to 6 times the original price.

This seems to be a good idea, either they will object giving reasons or keep quiet.

friend,
i am trying to file a case against import of arms,so far nothing is happening.
except for ifg most people are ignorant about guns and its values.
people read only the dark side of the firearms.
and so the need for a gun is not primary.
the whole system is upside down.
regards

Do we any member from Dholpur, I read this article today

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 732956.cms

I think we should put lil effort in trying to rope in cities like this, as these are the places where we might max no of members and also cases which might make our fight for RKBA more strong. Just a thought.

sa-ali,
nice thought.the only problem is getting together,most of us have excuses.
will try at least.
regrads

These places have higher concenteration, so it would work better, in bigger towns it more difficult to catch hold of ppl.

I suggest those of you who are genuinely interested in filing a writ to protect your gun rights get in touch with NAGRI.

A legal document has already been prepared by some eminent lawyers including Shanti Bhushan.

Unfortunately there is a lot of hot gas and good intentions by gun owners but very little hard core action.

Yes NAGRI can be contacted for the same. Also it appears RTI is also being done on this import restriction: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15706