Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

The legal aspects of owning, shooting, importing arms/ ammo and other related legal aspects as well as any other legal queries. Please note: This INCLUDES all arms licensing issues/ queries!
Post Reply
goodboy_mentor
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:48 am

I was searching http://elegalix.allahabadhighcourt.in/e ... bSearch.do for "Arms Act" under text search and came up with a peculiar case of cancellation of Arms License under Section 30.
Arms Act 1959 Section 30. Punishment for contravention of licence or rule- Whoever contravenes any condition of a licence or any provision of this act or any rule made thereunder, for which no punishment is provided
elsewhere in this Act shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3*[six month], or with fine which may extend to 4*[two thousand] rupees, or with both.
Firearm license canceled under Section 30 on following two grounds:-

(a) that he had gone to the District Jail Lalitpur carrying his rifle openly, which caused flutter, thereby rendering the petitioner liable to be prosecuted under Section 30 of the Arms Act; and

(b) that he had gone to meet an under-trial under the Gangster Act, therefore, he apparently has connections with anti-social elements and as such was not a person fit enough to hold an Arms license.

It is really pathetic to find that, the District Magistrate, the Commissioner and even High Court fail to see simple points of law and proceed as per their biased and prejudiced mindset:

1) He had gone to jail carrying his rifle openly and not carrying it in concealed form, shows that he did not intend to harm anybody but carried rifle for his self defense which is a fundamental right under article 21. How this action of carrying rifle openly becomes contravention of Section 30 of Arms Act? If some person/s start fluttering at the mere sight of a rifle on person, is it a contravention of Section 30 of Arms Act? Had his intentions been to
contravene section 30 of Arms Act and harm anybody he would have carried any weapon in a concealable form to bypass jail security or would have tried to sneak himself or any weapon into the jail by some illegal/clandestine means.

2) He had gone to meet an under-trial in jail(held under whatever Act) as per the rules and regulations of jail to meet the under-trials. How can meeting someone by following the rules and regulations of jail become a contravention of Section 30 of Arms Act?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

For Advertising mail webmaster
sudhaiob
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:19 pm
Location: Tiruchirapalli, Tamilnadu 620021

Re: Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

Post by sudhaiob » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:28 pm

Pray give me a good reason for the person to sport his weapon to the jail. Next you will ask what is wrong in carrying a weapon openly to the assembly/parliament. Do you know that there is a ban on carrying weapons to restricted places.
Personally i am surprised that he was not shot down.
regs
sudhaiob

vrohan59
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:15 pm

Re: Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

Post by vrohan59 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:05 pm

@sudhaiob
While I do agree that carrying a weapon to the prison is not right,to say the least,but lest give the guy the benefit of the doubt.Maybe he was travelling from another town and had nowhere to stash his weapon!!And moreover he wasn't concealing it,or from what I can understand there was no intent to cause mayhem(if someone starts fluttering on the very sight of a weapon,needs to get his nut examined!!),if that was the case he wouldn't have been carrying he would have been firing it.Here's something from my personal experience;while in Delhi I had gone with my father on official duty to one government office(which was somewhere near CP,don't exactly remember where),he was openly carrying a civilian rifle,and was not wearing uniform.The cops on duty asked for the licence,after examining it kept the weapon with them(after duly entering it in their register),and we entered the building.So by your logic we should have been shot down as "potential miscreants",and it would have been better to sneak the weapon in?And by the way we live in a "DEMOCRACY"(or so we claim),people are not shot down for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time!!And the second reason stated that he had connections with"antisocial elements,and hence was not permitted to own/carry arms,Mr.Sudhaiob,suspects are "innocent until proved guilty in a court of law",and not"guilty until proven innocent",so once again by your logic we should simply do away with courts and trials and lynch/shoot down people suspected of crimes!!In my opinion "such people" are truly not elligable to posses arms.
Regards,
Rohan
Last edited by vrohan59 on Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
War does not define who is right -- only who is left
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."

Happy
One of Us (Nirvana)
One of Us (Nirvana)
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:27 am
Location: Pune

Re: Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

Post by Happy » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:41 pm

:agree:

sudhaiob
Almost at nirvana
Almost at nirvana
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:19 pm
Location: Tiruchirapalli, Tamilnadu 620021

Re: Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

Post by sudhaiob » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:16 pm

please note that i have responded only to the first part of the statement.
carrying a weapon to a Government office and the same to a prison are two different things. you just cannot equate the two.A prison guard in Madurai Central Jail sometime back shot dead a Sri Lankan who was unarmed and who did not know the language wandered into a restricted area. What will be the normal reaction of a security man on the sight of a man with arms loaded or not, you decide. when you have trigger happy police who shoot on the merest or no provocation at all it is still a surprise that he was not shot at all.
sudhaiob

goodboy_mentor
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

Post by goodboy_mentor » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:01 pm

Please note that laws should be implemented as per their meaning, not as per the whims and fancies of individuals implementing them.
Firearm license canceled under Section 30 on following two grounds:-
(a) that he had gone to the District Jail Lalitpur carrying his rifle openly, which caused flutter, thereby rendering the petitioner liable to be prosecuted under Section 30 of the Arms Act; and
Going to the jail and entering the jail are two different things. He had "gone" to district jail with firearm. Nowhere does it say he had "entered" district jail with firearm. Anyone can go to the jail with firearm, he cannot enter the jail with firearm. At the gates of the jail, guards will ask the person to deposit the firearm before entering. If anyone tries to force his way in with firearm, he will be arrested. How going to the jail with firearm can constitute violation of the license or rules? Moreover under what terms of license or rules, the license holder is responsible to ensure that nobody around him "flutters"?
(b) that he had gone to meet an under-trial under the Gangster Act, therefore, he apparently has connections with anti-social elements and as such was not a person fit enough to hold an Arms license.
Under no stretch of imagination it can be said that meeting an under-trial inside the jail by following the rules and regulations constitute violation of the license or rules.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

edgaringoa
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:30 pm
Location: Goa-India
Contact:

Re: Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

Post by edgaringoa » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:26 pm

Is the Arms Act so Draconian that it does not give a chance to the person to explain himself and his actions to the Authorities? I don't understand why a licensed weapon should be concealed. A license should be eligible for cancellation only if there is misuse and gross misconduct on part of the licence holder. Recently I was told by a High Court Lawyer not to carry my licensed weapon (revolver) as anyone who hates my face may go to the cops and register a false complaint against me alleging that I pointed the weapon at him or her. This makes me a sitting DUCK. So whats the big deal about obtaining a license if it can be cancelled on such flimsy grounds? I hope similar perceptions are applied to Motor Vehicle Act too and driving licenses be cancelled if a vehicle comes menacingly close to another vehicle or pedestrian. That would be fun !!! In present day and age when everyone has a camera on a cellphone a mere recording of the incident should be accepted as proof of the occurrence and good enough to cancel the license. A phone camera can come on in a few seconds with dedicated touch buttons.

goodboy_mentor
Old Timer
Old Timer
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

Post by goodboy_mentor » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:28 pm

To a great extent your lawyer is correct. Even if you are not carrying the firearm, the complainant states that you made some threatening "utterances" that you will bring your gun and fire at him etc. etc., and if authorities are "satisfied" with complaint, they can revoke or suspend your license. Arms Act 1959 is practically a repainted version of Arms Act 1878 used by the British to keep natives "in line" and prevent them from causing another 1857. Arms Act 1959 practically gives a free hand to authorities to do as they please, deny licenses, revoke licenses, book people in false cases under Arms Act etc. etc., without any kind of accountability. This unaccountability has been cleverly protected by Section 40 of Arms Act 1959 which states:
"No suit, prosecution or other legal proceeding shall lie against any person for anything which is in good faith done or intended to be done under this Act."
Reference: http://www.abhijeetsingh.com/arms/india ... r_5_6.html
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

edgaringoa
Learning the ropes
Learning the ropes
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:30 pm
Location: Goa-India
Contact:

Re: Height of absurdity for cancelling arms license

Post by edgaringoa » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:47 pm

Wow! Thanks for enlightening me on this. Looks like the Act was originally intended to disarm rather than arm. So we are all sitting ducks duly recorded,numbered and up for exploitation. The British tinge of absolute power without accountability must be dealt with by competent body to the extent of permitting a fair chance to a person who has been a victim of a senile ploy. Meanwhile, my weapon stays out of sight and my lips sealed. Thanx again for the valuable advise.

Post Reply