All India Endorsement

[nm]

Dear Nm
Congrats for AIV. Can u share the grounds taken by you in support of your AIV application?

I had applied for 'sports' and also attached a recommendation letter from NRAI.

NM

[nm]

Dear All,

As per Arms Act- All India Validity is only for 3 years, if you get it as well, then again after 3 years the same process has to be repeated, it is not renewed with license renewal.

however 3 adjoining state validity extension is renewed with license.

Cheers....

Yes, you are right...but I haven't come across anyone who has been given AIV for 3 years. Are you aware of any similar case?

Till recently, the AIV was also for life similar to the 3 adjoining states validity for life.

Wonder what babus have in store....

NM

[goodboy_mentor]

GBM, I agree with your first and third point. Will get back to you on the second, once I get back to Delhi.

On a deeper thought regarding the third point, if one contends that his freedom of movement is not merely about moving from point A to B only for few days on a transit license. Such a license puts unreasonable burden on him. His freedom of movement includes moving freely in any part of the country, anytime and every time without giving any reasons or justifications. Hence if he does not get all India license, it is effecting his freedom of movement, RKBA under Article 19 and right of self defense under Article 21.

[inplainsight]

GBM,

I'm a law abiding citizen of India. If I want to travel out of Delhi, then I have to

1. Obtain permission from Delhi Police to take my weapon to a certain district. i.e. I have to provided a reason and apply in advance to practice my rights to self defense
2. Once I reach my destination, I need to report to the local LA to show them my TL.
3. I can not visit another district during my vacation, not unless I had that approved by Delhi Police before hand.

What happens if my car breaks down before I reach the destination. By staying there, I'm technically in violation of the law.

To me, and I could be wrong here, this violates my right to freedom of movement. On top of this, I get treated like a common criminal, just because I decided to excersice my rights under sectn 19/21.

Again, I could be wrong here.

Thanks

[goodboy_mentor]

No you are certainly not wrong here. What is the justification to put you(and all license holders) under this burden? It is certainly an unreasonable burden. How many crimes they have been able to prevent by doing all this nonsense?

[Safarigent]

This situation of granting AIV for 3 years raises a question that is very important: what happens to those all india license holders who had gotten an all india endorsement before this new policy? Is their area validity now valid only for 3 years? If not, why are the new crop of license holders being discriminated against?
Secondly and even more importantly, one wonders whether arms and ammunition is a state or central subject? I only ask because shooters in other states are getting all india validity without any time restriction. Examples being Rajasthan, M.P, A.P etc. why are these states not following the same guidelines from the center?

[goodboy_mentor]

This situation of granting AIV for 3 years raises a question that is very important: what happens to those all india license holders who had gotten an all india endorsement before this new policy? Is their area validity now valid only for 3 years? If not, why are the new crop of license holders being discriminated against?

Area of validity: All India/All State/District
Duration of validity: Three years
This is what is desired by Arms Act 1959 and its Rules.

The administrative "Policy" has no legal value. If Arms License holders are not getting fair treatment as per Arms Act 1959 or the Constitution, they will have to wisely fight for their rights. Else there is no end to the nonsense that is going on.

Secondly and even more importantly, one wonders whether arms and ammunition is a state or central subject? I only ask because shooters in other states are getting all india validity without any time restriction. Examples being Rajasthan, M.P, A.P etc. why are these states not following the same guidelines from the center?

If some States are following the Arms Act and not following the "Policy" of MHA, nothing wrong in it. In Poonam Verma & Ors vs Delhi Development Authority, Supreme Court has already held that guidelines per se do not partake to the character of statute. In Subhash Ramkumar Bind @ Vakil & Anr vs State Of Maharashtra Supreme Court has held that administrative instructions cannot possibly be a substitute for a notification which stands as a requirement of the Statute. Both the judgment details can be read in this link http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17298

[inplainsight]

Sadly, the act/rules are quite ambiguous regarding this.

If you could please mention the specific sections/rules that apply for this matter and are ambiguous. As per my understanding the Rule 4 of Arms Rules 1962 and Schedule II of Arms Rules 1962 are relevant for area validity. Since Rules cannot override the Act, period of validity of any license under the Act will be decided by Section 15 of Arms Act 1959.

GBM,

I don't think that we are on the same page here. I think you are talking about the duration of renewal, while I'm talking about something else.

I was talking about how the Arms Act fails to define the procedure for Area of Validity and the Arms Rules is vague regarding the procedures / rights of the licensee. I'm only able to find the following about this subject

Arms Rules, Section 53: Variation of Conditions of Licenses
(1) On application from a licence-holder, a licensing authority may extend the area of validity specified in his licence, if he is satisfied about the need of such extension, subject to the condition that the licensing authority has the power to grant a licence in relation to the area to which extension is sought.

The Act/Rules fail to outline a procedure for extension of Area of Validity and Section 15 of the Arms Act does not mention anything about this either. So technically, the Licensing Authority has full discretion here. The only thing that mentions anything about Area of Validity it the MHA policy.

I hope I'm wrong here, I'd love to find a legal ground to demand an All India Validity, besides 'freedom of movement'...

Regards

[goodboy_mentor]

The Act/Rules fail to outline a procedure for extension of Area of Validity and Section 15 of the Arms Act does not mention anything about this either. So technically, the Licensing Authority has full discretion here. The only thing that mentions anything about Area of Validity it the MHA policy.

I hope I'm wrong here, I'd love to find a legal ground to demand an All India Validity, besides 'freedom of movement'...

No you are certainly not wrong, your observation about Rule 53 is correct. There are some Sections under Arms Act/Rules that are vague or suffering from vice of over delegation, Rule 53 appears to be one such provision.

MHA policy does not have any force of law. There is no provision under Arms Act 1959 to issue a policy. It has been done due to a good reason. The reason is arms are fundamental right under Article 19. But this fact (the doctrine of 2nd Amendment exists in the Indian Constitution.....read Article 51A(d)) is one of the best kept secrets of post 1947 India. The results are before all of us to see now in the form of Arms Act and its Rules and its misuse by them like mentioned in this thread http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20602.

[manshah007]

strike, 2"x 2" card temporary arms license sounds fishy, for arms license in india are granted in forms eg. FORMIII, before seventies arm licenses where issued in form which where big sheet of paper, with printed matter sections for name address and other details, senior members of this forum will testify or may be having one. much later came the arms license in form of booklet. carrying those license in sheet form was really a task as it had to be folded imagine carrying a folded newspaper. this is for the knowledge of members who have aquired arms license recently and may not have chanced upon seeing arms license as a spreadsheet.

[skpandey1201]

Hi,

I got a license for arms in 2011 and in the same year the case was recommended for AIV to home department as I am a defence personnel. till now I did not get any response from licensing authority. by the time my license was renewed from same licensing authority after 03 years and I also got posted out to another state. I moved with my arms. what can be done in this regard?

[sallu]

Hi,
Writing after a long time.
I have license for All uttar pradesh and recently i am getting some info that 3 states license are issued in full swing.
just help me to know that can i have Maharashtra (Mumbai) endorsed or my info is fake
Thanks

[andy_65_in]

Sometimes licence renewal authorities insist on a NOC from the original licence issuing authority while renewing a ALL INDIA licence.i have 2 such licence to be renewed and have these authorities which are now photocopies since the orignal were deposited with one such renewing authority on their behest.what i wish to know is that is it mandatory to obtain a NOC again for the same licences if these renewing authorities so insist- i mean it shouldnt be so since the original licence authority has already issued a NOC once.please specify and provide me with some relevant rules. I am even wondering as to why is there a requirement of asking from a NOC from the oiginal isuing authority every time such a licence is to be renewed when its of ALL INDIA validity, i mean whats then the point in possessing a All India licence when it cant be renewed anuwhere without a NOC.mind you both my licences are of pre 1995 vintage.thanks

[sap17]

Dear Members, I have recently got a license for a revolver/pistol of NPB. Currently its valid for only the state I am located in. My query is that how soon can I apply for getting it converted to all India status? I fulfill the criteria of [IAS,IPS officers, Employees of the Central Govt, Defence Personnel]. Regards & Thanks

[sa_ali]

Dear Members, I have recently got a license for a revolver/pistol of NPB. Currently its valid for only the state I am located in. My query is that how soon can I apply for getting it converted to all India status? I fulfill the criteria of [IAS,IPS officers, Employees of the Central Govt, Defence Personnel]. Regards & Thanks

You can straight away put application for the conversion to all india, there is no waiting period.