Prohibited Bore calibres & firearms

[MoA]

Might be easier to list prohibited bores...

the 9mm Para, .38, 45 according to the folks on the board come to mind who definetely know more than me about the Indian regulations.

Hence I would guess every thing else is NPB. You might want to stick to .22 or .32 due to ammo supply issues.

[cottage cheese]

Not much to be confused about.

Other than the anomaly that Mumbai presents, the simplest definition of PB would be those which are in service with the agencies of the Government and the defense forces.

Out of that you can excuse .22LR, 12Bore and 315(Which are in use with Government agencies)

Everything else, subject to availability and practical limits is NPB.

A common misconception is that the size of the ammunition defines its PB/NPB classification....something like anything bigger than .32ACP in hands guns is PB...which is wrong. You can even own a licensed Desert Eagle in .50AE if you can procure it legally(Fat chance... ..... )

Flawed terminology in the Arms Act somewhat adds a little confusion- Since, other than pistols, any other semi automatic long-arm is classed as prohibited, they should've had "Prohibited Bores" and "Prohibited types" as well...instead in a typically babu manner they've lumped everything as "Bores".... so for instance, in the case of the M1 carbine, many folks think the .30Carbine ammo is PB- its not- its simply the semi-auto nature of the firearm that puts it in the PB class.

Also need to remember that a semi-auto .22 rifle would also be PB.

[Anand]

cottage cheese,
I think there may have been a notification/clarification on this forum somewhere, that in the case of .22 rifles, with respect to Rifle clubs and for target shooting, semi autos ARE allowed and not considered Prohibited.


As an aside, while I am aware that the .357 Mag is considered a NP, I was told that .38 Special is also in service on a limited basisin addition to the Indian made .38 S&W/.380 Rimmed Revolver cartridge. A .357 magnum will chamber and fire .38 Special.

I am aware that the existing arms laws have only mentioned 9mmP rimless pistol, .380 Rimmed revolver, .455 Rimmed, .45 Rimless pistol cartridges as Prohibited bores in handguns. There is a statement to the effect that a firearm will be considered Prohibited Bore if it can chamber and fire any of these service cartridges.

Also just the usage by the armed services does not automatically designate it Prohibited Bore, example: 30-06(military),.315(some forest depts.), .22 LR, for training by Police and Military etc.

I believe that a cartridge must officially be designated as Prohibited Bore as mentioned in the Arms Law.


Anand

[TwoRivers]

Harvikram: The .380 ACP, aka 9mm Short, is a rimless cartridge for selfloading pistols. The .38 S&W, aka .380/200, aka .380 Revolver is a rimmed cartridge for revolvers, is NOT the same as, or interchangeable with the .380 ACP; and is a PB in India because of gov't use. Cheers.

[dodger]

Is it that if Someone applies for NP Bore in India and is granted the License for that, then will he be able to Buy any of his 3 choices of Rifles which are their in the NP categories?

Kshitij

[amit_sharma86]

Hi everybody.
IOF Made Iof Asani .32 bore is an NPB (Non prohibited bore) . Other than this pistol what kind of foreign pistol of non prohibited bore are available in india.
Is Walther P22 , and Llama 32 is a non prohibited bore or non prohibited bore. Please answer. If they are NPB then they are available for civilians.
Looking for your reply guys.
Thank you very much.

[dev]

Hi everybody.
IOF Made Iof Asani .32 bore is an NPB (Non prohibited bore) . Other than this pistol what kind of foreign pistol of non prohibited bore are available in india.
Is Walther P22 , and Llama 32 is a non prohibited bore or non prohibited bore. Please answer. If they are NPB then they are available for civilians.
Looking for your reply guys.
Thank you very much.

Please post an introduction first. Then go through the posts on NPB and PB pistols and also read all the threads on pistols.

Regards,

Dev

[archer]

Hey,

As i understand, .45ACP is NPB in mumbai. So if a person is issued a Handgun Licence can he get himself a .45ACP pistol or does he still have to approach the home ministry for approval?

regards
Parag

[nagarifle]

eh does not the arms act apply to all of India? have not come across regional variation in the arms act as such.

the only thing that comes to the mind is that mumbai babus may not know what is PB AND NPB.

one way to find out is if one phones lets say Delhi arms dealer and tell that you have NPB licence and want a .45ACP and see what he says.

thats my1\2 cent worth.

[Anand]

Hello Abhijeet,
I just wanted to draw your attention to something, you wrote:
"(iv) .455 Webley (rimless pistol cartridge) - since many pistols chambered for this can theoretically chamber and fire the .45 ACP round (NOT RECOMMENDED), even .45 ACP is classified as prohibited bore."

The .45" Rimless (.45 ACP) cartridge is still being used in Thompson submachine guns and being issued even today, especially in times of elections (possibly due to scarcity of other firearms).

It is my understanding that because .45 ACP is still a service caliber is primarily why it is listed as Prohibited Bore, and not because of what you stated.

Just wanted to nitpick...hehehe!
Regards,
Anand

[mundaire]

Hello Abhijeet,
I just wanted to draw your attention to something, you wrote:
"(iv) .455 Webley (rimless pistol cartridge) - since many pistols chambered for this can theoretically chamber and fire the .45 ACP round (NOT RECOMMENDED), even .45 ACP is classified as prohibited bore."

The .45" Rimless (.45 ACP) cartridge is still being used in Thompson submachine guns and being issued even today, especially in times of elections (possibly due to scarcity of other firearms).

It is my understanding that because .45 ACP is still a service caliber is primarily why it is listed as Prohibited Bore, and not because of what you stated.

Just wanted to nitpick...hehehe!
Regards,
Anand

Anand, you are right. I stand corrected.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[penpusher]

I think there may have been a notification/clarification on this forum somewhere, that in the case of .22 rifles, with respect to Rifle clubs and for target shooting, semi autos ARE allowed and not considered Prohibited.

Semi-auto rifles are not prohibited i.e. their ownership or use is not disallowed,however the license is still to be issued by the Central Home Ministry.

In fact no 'bore' is prohibited in India.

[marksman]

Anand,
The TMGs were never a part of British Arsenal. The Allied troops while withdrawing from south east Asia dumped them and the 1911s upon the British Govt. since they were on the same side. Mundaire is not entirely wrong when he mentioned the .455 Webley. The the dumb Babus confuse .455 Webley Pistol cartridge with .45 ACP(Both fired from a 1911 designed pistol). and as per the unwritten rule. they do not want to take chances with the matters that confuses them.
Marksman

[cottage cheese]

Anand,
The TMGs were never a part of British Arsenal. The Allied troops while withdrawing from south east Asia dumped them and the 1911s upon the British Govt. since they were on the same side. Mundaire is not entirely wrong when he mentioned the .455 Webley. The the dumb Babus confuse .455 Webley Pistol cartridge with .45 ACP(Both fired from a 1911 designed pistol). and as per the unwritten rule. they do not want to take chances with the matters that confuses them.
Marksman

Hi Marksman,

A small correction - Thompsons, particularly the prewar M1928's along with a host of American weaponry were indeed a part of the British and commonwealth arsenal. One should remember the US lend-lease program that came to the aid of the British commonwealth in the years before USA joined the war. It was pretty substantial. The Thompsons and other US firearms continued in service through out the war despite the introduction of Stens and the like. Even the Indian army(WWII) used Thompsons extensively.

Large numbers of 1911's also came to the hands of the British this way. All that apart from the RAF 1911 that was chambered for .455 rimless (Different from .455webley).

The large number of Thompson M1s and M1A1s (1942 onwards)may have come by way of the lend lease or inheritance of American war material in the wake of WWII.

Apart from that, you're probably right about this being beyond the frequency range of most babus

[penpusher]

The TMGs were never a part of British Arsenal. The Allied troops while withdrawing from south east Asia dumped them and the 1911s upon the British Govt. since they were on the same side.

Wrong on both counts.TSMG's and 1911(in .45and .455 Eley) were used by the British troops during IIndWW





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun

"...The Thompson found particular utility in World War II in the hands of Allied troops as a weapon for scouts, non-commissioned officers, and patrol leaders. In the European theater, the gun was widely utilized in British and Canadian Commandos.."








http://barilin.com/colt.html


".......3) Colt M1911 British Contract: S/N W29117 to W97000 and S/N C29 to C74,200 =
May 1912 to April 1919 (Approx. 17,500 pistols were shipped to England. Serial
numbers that begin with a "C" were .45 ACP and serial numbers that begin with a
"W" were .455 Webley calibers.

4) Colt M1911 British RAF Contract: S/N W91,100 to W110,696 = Jan. 22, 1918 to
April 28, 1919 (Approx. 10,000 pistols were shipped to the Royal Air Force from this
serial number range and were .455 Webley caliber.)

5) British M1911A1 WW II Lend-Lease: From all S/N's of U.S. M1911A1 models =
March 11, 1941 through the rest of WW II ( The U.S. furnished 39,592 pistols to
Britain through the Lend-Lease Act.)"