Legal Space for Firearm Shooting

[Chandan22]

Gentlemen,

This is quite an interesting and engaging discussion. Thanks for pitching in. I have some other points

1. The Arms Act gives me the freedom to protect my life, property and that of other individuals from aggression using proportionate force, including firearms to injure and maybe even kill the aggressor. Hence that is one USE case of firearms that I legally own.

2. GBM you state that I don't have the permission to discharge my firearm in any "public place", except when point 1 is valid. Also, in private spaces you state that I cannot endanger any other person, or even animal as that would become hunting, which is illegal. My question is which laws specifically prohibit me from doing so?

3. I'm not stating I want to fire in the air or just to show off, my question and curiosity stems from the simple objective of shooting my gun in a safe/secure/protected environment, with all due precautions to not endanger any human/animal, but which may not be a notified shooting range.

4. In the matter of shooting ranges, which law specifies the pre-conditions for designating an area, private or public, as a shooting range for firearms? What are the pre-requisites if I wish to construct a shooting range for myself on private property? Where are the guidelines/laws related to this?

5. A seperate question is that in absence of any specifically applicable law, does the govt/police have the right to enforce their whims/fancies, viz if there is no law regulating shooting ranges then how does one handle an issue on this?

6. Another disconnected question is w.r.t. becoming an arms dealer. The arms act does not clarify the procedure for becoming an arms dealer or gunsmith. Would any of you have any knowledge of that?

As for what prep I did to get my licence, I read a lot on this forum and others like this. I spoke to people who had applied and gotten/rejected licences etc. I also realised that an application under self defence is unlikely to succeed without any connections, of which either I didn't have any and didn't wish to exploit those that I have. And given that a decade earlier I had undertaken the civilian rifle training certificate program and was keen on shooting competitively as well, the sports route seemed best. So diligently following the process of obtaining memberships from DSRA & NRAI, and then also of Karni Singh, along with my civilian training certificate, I applied only when I had all these backups in place to strengthen my claim of wanting to shoot competitively. A residence change in this duration led to extra effort in changing papers, getting new proofs etc. Being unemployed also helped as it significantly reduced my documentation requirements. This whole thing took almost 2 whole years from the time I first started research. Truly speaking I was not expecting to get the licence in one go and was all set to appeal and even move the court but it happened. So thats that. Maybe not a struggle akin to 1947, but still something which should be a lot easier took almost 2 years.

~C

[ckkalyan]

Well done Chandan22! Curiosity, persistence, patience, thirst for knowledge!

I must say here, that I truly understand why you have asked the question 'where can I legally shoot' - it is a pertinent question. I will admit that there are no laws that clearly state where you can discharge firearms outside of designated ranges.There are a lot of grey areas, but in the end no real water tight answers / laws. One walks on hot coals.

This applies to many other countries including Canada - many, many grey areas in the firearms laws and legislations!

My opinion: We use common sense (which, I am given to understand is really quite un-common) to carry out our activities and we should be okay (fingers crossed).

Just my opinion.

[aadhaulya]

If you think all right, would you like to share what you did that ensured that license could not be denied on whims and fancies of licensing authority.

This is the interesting part and a lot of people can benefit from your experience.

Regards

[goodboy_mentor]

1. The Arms Act gives me the freedom to protect my life, property and that of other individuals from aggression using proportionate force, including firearms to injure and maybe even kill the aggressor. Hence that is one USE case of firearms that I legally own.

Arms Act is not "giving" you the "freedom" to protect your life, property and that of other individuals from aggression using proportionate force, including firearms to injure and maybe even kill the aggressor. It is your inalienable right bestowed on you by the laws of nature and acknowledged by common law. Even animals try their best to protect their right to life, liberty, their near and dear ones, and property/ territory when attacked. In other words it is also your inalienable human right because you are human. It existed from day one when humans were created on this earth. No government documents including Constitutions or enactments by Parliaments can "give" or "grant" you this freedom or right. Sections 96 to 106 of the Indian Penal Code flowing from Article 21 of the Constitution, are merely acknowledging this pre existing freedom/ right. Without these sections, the courts will also come to same conclusion but it might take lot of time and trouble to come to the same conclusion. That is why these provisions have been enacted to make it easier to reach such conclusions.

But what is the point you are trying to prove or what is your question?

2. GBM you state that I don't have the permission to discharge my firearm in any "public place", except when point 1 is valid. Also, in private spaces you state that I cannot endanger any other person, or even animal as that would become hunting, which is illegal. My question is which laws specifically prohibit me from doing so?

Point 1 is valid because it is protected by common law and the same has been acknowledged by Sections 96 to 106 of the Indian Penal Code.

The second part of your question is against both common law as well as statutory laws(Arms Act, CrPC, IPC, Wildlife Protection Act, Prevention of Cruelty to Animal Act, Environment (Protection) Act and its Noise Pollution (Regulation and Control) Rules etc.) enacted by Parliament.

Common Law :
• The unwritten Law of the Common man
• Comes directly from higher self/conscience/intuition
• Religious codes of conduct
• Summed up as ‘Harm None’
• These Laws are for Man and protect that is Lawful -
• Law of the Land
• Almost universal Worldwide
• Protects those whose Rights have been infringed upon
• Crime with a Victim i.e. mallum in se crime like murder, theft etc.

Statutes/ Legislation :
• A Statute is a Legislative Act of a Society
• Formal written agreement which governs a Country, State etc. Which has the ‘Force of Law’ or Color of Law
• Almost always comes with a monetary ‘Charge’
• These Laws are on Man and restrict freedoms that are legal -
• Commercial Law
• Admiralty Maritime Law
• Law of Trade
• Law of The Sea
• Victimless Crime i.e. mallum prohibitum crime like possessing gun(your common law right of RKBA) "without license" under Arms Act. You are paying monetary "charge" i.e. license fee to get license. You are also paying paying monetary "charge" for offenses and penalties under it in form of fines. These type of laws are burden on freedom/ liberty/ common law. That is why they have to be "reasonable" so that common law(fundamental laws/ fundamental rights) is not hurt.

Statutory laws enacted by Parliament are to regulate/ restrict common law rights for common/ public interest. Fundamental laws(Fundamental Rights) of the Indian Constitution are based on common law. One of the basic foundation of common law is - the rights of one man end where the rights another man begin. When you are discharging the gun in public place, you are transgressing various rights of the public. (unless it is some place that has no reasonable possibility of any member of public to be there. Like top of Himalayas, Siachen Glacier etc.)

3. I'm not stating I want to fire in the air or just to show off, my question and curiosity stems from the simple objective of shooting my gun in a safe/secure/protected environment, with all due precautions to not endanger any human/animal, but which may not be a notified shooting range.

Please refer the reply for number 4.

4. In the matter of shooting ranges, which law specifies the pre-conditions for designating an area, private or public, as a shooting range for firearms? What are the pre-requisites if I wish to construct a shooting range for myself on private property? Where are the guidelines/laws related to this?

I have not gone deep into "search and find" for the statutory laws related to shooting ranges(if they exist), so would not like to comment. Most probably there isn't any specific enactment but very likely some that are indirectly related like sound pollution laws etc. But regardless of all this, the public safety is of paramount importance to both common law and statutory law. You may try to search this forum if someone has already done some research on this topic. You may also do RTI with Sports Ministries of both central and state governments. You may also consult some experienced lawyer.

5. A seperate question is that in absence of any specifically applicable law, does the govt/police have the right to enforce their whims/fancies, viz if there is no law regulating shooting ranges then how does one handle an issue on this?

Govt/police may not have the right to enforce their whims/fancies but they surely do have the might to enforce their whims/fancies. If they ever decide to do so, they make the person very familiar with the intricacies or rather limitations of the procedures of law and the courts. For example you may like to read the incident where police filed 18 false cases against one person in this post http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 59#p228636

6. Another disconnected question is w.r.t. becoming an arms dealer. The arms act does not clarify the procedure for becoming an arms dealer or gunsmith. Would any of you have any knowledge of that?

For getting license for arms dealer and repairing guns there is elaborate procedure laid down in Arms Act and its Rules.

[Chandan22]

Hello,

I've spoken to many lawyers (thankfully have a huge bunch of lawyer friends) but no one seems to know much about shooting ranges. Still will keep at it. Am planning to open a firearm range in Dwarka, Delhi offering field shooting, obstacle shooting training etc for individuals, and am trying to figure out legalities. Lets see.

As for the other points, I take your point about common law and all. And while the largest risk is of police might, I'm going to continue looking for some clarity on this issue. Will revert when something is found.

For the arms dealership, I couldn't find a procedure for application in the Arms Act. It only specifies some form numbers etc which are not available online, so perhaps next stop is LA office. Project for next year I suppose.

~C

[goodboy_mentor]

If your lawyer friends do not have clarity on this issue, then RTI with Law Ministries and Sports Ministries of both central and state governments should be able to clarify if there are any statutory laws for this matter.

For arms dealership and repairing you may read Section 5 of Arms Act, its Rules 20, 21, its Schedules II and III. In short you will have to fill up proper forms as prescribed in Arms Rules for dealership, repairing licenses and apply to your local licensing authority. The office of local licensing authority should be able to guide you on this.

[essar57]

A question related to this thread and already posed on another but I havent got a satisfactory reply:

If a person holds an arms license, is he allowed any practice allowance periodically? Suppose he is employed as a guard, who can authorise such practice? Does he need to get any other permission from any other authority? Are the expended rounds to be accounted for? Instead can he buy new ammunition if the ammo in stock is life expired? Typically, where can he go for such practice ? Any such ranges in Bangalore/Chennai.

Thanks in advance

[nagarifle]

A question related to this thread and already posed on another but I havent got a satisfactory reply:

If a person holds an arms license, is he allowed any practice allowance periodically? Suppose he is employed as a guard, who can authorise such practice? Does he need to get any other permission from any other authority? Are the expended rounds to be accounted for? Instead can he buy new ammunition if the ammo in stock is life expired? Typically, where can he go for such practice ? Any such ranges in Bangalore/Chennai.

Thanks in advance

you are given an quote on the licence for the year, thats it. or you could ask for an increase.
if a guard holds his own licence and arms then he can practice whenever what ever he wants within the law.
if where the man lives the local authority would have the needed info, if rounds are required to be counted then they must be counted. if stock is old too bad.

[marksman]

It has become really difficult to practice shooting in Govt land and forests in M'rashtra. More so after the news of contracted shooters and terrorist cells found to have been practising in remote areas of the forests and isolated areas. All the para military forces and police as well are pretty paranoid lot when it comes to the sound of gun fire and rightly so. These terrorists and criminals have caused as much damage to sincere gun enthus as to our nation. Till the 90s, We'd often select a safe place with a safe backdrop in form of a hillock or sand dune high enough and shoot the rifles away. Not any more now.The ranges within any city do not allow the discharge of center fire rifles, even shotguns. Hope they make some provision so that the authorities allow us to use Gov't land after providing prior intimation to the concerned police station or something by legal arms holders..

Marksman

[Walibaa]

Fire in air.

[aadhaulya]

GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL. DO NOT PASS GO. DO NOT COLLECT 200. (From Monopoly)
If required I will give you the clauses under the arms act, the police is going to slap you with.
Walibaa, do you own a gun?? Or have you seen the new licenses being issued with this warning??

Atul