Indians For Guns

Hi Rustom,

Your expertise is required here.

I will be visiting India, quite a few times over the next couple of years.

1. Is it still legal to hunt birds in India. Things like Pigeons, Doves etc.. How about Ducks and Teal with Air-Rifle.

2. If yes to no-1. Then recommend me a quality spring powered Air-Rifle.
Most ARF's here are in the 16-21 FP range. Are they legal in India.(Any 12 FP limit?). Diana 34's are cheapest $180, HW/Webley's cost substantially more at $350+. Primarily I need hunting accuracy of 1.5-2 inches offhand at 30 yards with scope.

3. A quality Air Pistol. Good target grade accuracy needed. Checked dealer, had Diana 5($180), HW 45($310) and discontinued Webley Hurricane($170). Diana appeared to be cheaply built, Webley was a crude design similar to their obsolete revolvers. HW though bulky appeared modern. Looked at Website, did not actually handle the pistols.

Recommend something for couple of years use, unless something is really desired by shooters in India. In that case I will spend more and gift it to somebody who will appreciate/enjoy it.

Thanks a Million in advance.

Satpal

Hi Satpal,

One can no longer shoot doves, pigeons, partridges, quail, ducks or geese in India. Even with a catapult.

If you want target grade accuracy then none of those pistols will suffice.

The cheapest one's that will come somewhat close to a modern target air-pistol ($1,000 +) are the Gamo Compact Target, HW40, HW75, Rohm Top, FAS 604 and Second hand FWB 65 and 80.

If the budget can be extended and you want something good for 10 metre air-pistol then my choice would be as follows from the above mentioned pistols:

1) FWB 65 or 80. The 90 is also good but uses a battery that is difficult to find at times and expensive.

2) FAS 604. This could well be your first choice as well. I prefer the FWBs.

3) HW75 or Gamo Compact Target. See which fits you better.

4) Rohm Top. This may even outshoot the FWBs or FAS but I don't like it. However, my dislike is subjective and based only on what I have seen rather than tried. So worth looking at.

5) HW40.

The HWs are also available as Beemans in the U.S..

If you want the cutting edge of air-pistols then it would be the Steyr LP-10 (there is a cheaper version called the Steyr LP-1) or the Morini 162 EI in that particular order. I favour the Steyr LP-10.

Hope that helps.

Mack The Knife

Thanks Mack The Knife,

More confused than before regarding Air Pistol. You gave me more choices than I knew existed. Will need to do more research and get back to you.

Cost is not a problem to me, with kids settled and now the wife working Full time.

Basically I need a reliable tack driver.

I am of average built 6 feet even with normal size hands, so I can easily handle the average pistol. Eyesight too is normal without glasses. (For Pistols only, with rifle the rear sights gets a little fuzzy now). Being average helps as most air arms available in USA are through Mail Order and handling personally not possible.

Will look at a few more available choices and get back to you.

Thanks again, I appreciate your help.

Satpal

Satpal,

Is there a 10-metre shooting club close to you? Your best bet is to try before you buy.

If you are buying online buy from www.pilkguns.com Their service and after service is commendable. They also host the worlds leading ISSF target shooting forum. So, sign up and ask for advice there as well.

Mack The Knife

Mack The Knife, I'm back,

Did some research and thinking.

No 10 metre ranges nearby. Most people shoot replica (Umarex/Gamo) Co2 pistols in their garages. I have a approx. 35 feet range set up diagonally in my garage.

I plan to approach this project in two stages. Buy a modest/adequate pistol and start practicing. IF/When I am ready buy a really nice pistol. I checked Pilkguns, they have some good ones.

I called local dealer, he has following in stock.
I misplaced my notepad. Have to go by memory.
Daisy Avanti 747 $125, HW40 $ 140, Gamo Compact $ 210, IZH Baikal 46M $ 225. Plan to go the local dealer route as I can try gun for feel/balance and shoot a few pellets in his Gunsmithing room.

Give your Input. Which of these will be better in the Indian context, Repairs/Popularity wise.

Thanks,

Satpal

Isn't the Daisy Avanti a compressed air-rifle. If it is, then it's similar to the Air Arms S200. It's a very good air-rifle.

The rest of the pistols you mention are single stroke pneumatics and the IZH-46M is the best of the lot. Should have mentioned it earlier. If the shop owner has decent gun smithing skills have him adjust the trigger - it can be a bit of a pig to get right. If possible he should also alter the grip as they come with rather large one's. Otherwise it's a solid no nonsense air-pistol and a 10 metrer target pistol to boot.

Mack The Knife

Mack The Knife:

The silly Pneumatic Pistol finally came, was in a hurry so cleaned the barrel with 3 swabs of Pellgun oil followed by 3 dry ones.

Fired a few practice shots to get the feel of the gun.

Then shot 3, 3 shot groups with .177 Crossman Premier Target Wadcutter pellets. The groups were shot at 33 feet/10 metres.

I did not use a benchrest, however I rested the heel of the pistol on a chair while shooting.

This is what I got 8/16 Inch,7/16 Inch and 9/16 inch Center to Center. Measured with a student ruler with 1/16 inch increments. Pretty consistent around the Half-Inch mark Center to Center.
However all groups had two pellets touching each other and one Flier to the bottom.

Was in a hurry so taped reminder note pads on a phone book. Drew the bulls very crudely with my ballpen. Hard to see at 10 metres yet were adequate to aim. The 360 Fps pistol barely cuts through 10-20 pages of the phone book and the pellets bounced back, recovered all of them. They were slightly bent, hardly the thing to shoot anything alive??

Managed to borrow one of my sons Digital camera and shot pictures of the 2 Sticky pad target sheets.

Tell me what you think of the group sizes and what is considered good.

Satpal

Ps: My son borrowed the Pistol along with his camera, a nice rental fee for his camera, hope he does not damage the sights etc.. before returning it.

I am attaching Photobucket URL below, see how the groups are???

AP Groups

Isn't the Daisy Avanti a compressed air-rifle. If it is, then it's similar to the Air Arms S200. It's a very good air-rifle.

oooh someone finally mentioned my Rusi favourite.

dev

Mack The Knife Bana";p="8202 wrote: The rest of the pistols you mention are single stroke pneumatics and the IZH-46M is the best of the lot. Should have mentioned it earlier. If the shop owner has decent gun smithing skills have him adjust the trigger - it can be a bit of a pig to get right. If possible he should also alter the grip as they come with rather large one's. Otherwise it's a solid no nonsense air-pistol and a 10 metrer target pistol to boot.

Mack The Knife

O

OK!! Nawab Mack The Knife Sahib:

Got my Air Pistol back, my son shot it about 100 times and cleaned it twice with a dry pull through patch.

The Pistol seems to have been broken in, pumps much easier/smoothly now.

Printed 3 red colored rectangles using MS Excel and put the pistol through it's paces again.

Used a Phone book as backup to the target, used another phone book to rest the front of the Pistol.

Do not plan to use a Benchrest, as my Shooting skills then do not show up. Just supported the front lightly, the grip area was free to move as needed.

Same 33 feet(10 meters) to target. Fired 3, 3 shot groups. Fired within 5 minutes. About 10 seconds aiming the gun and squeezing the trigger each time.

Used "Gamo Match", Spanish made pellets this time. Got 6/16",3/16" and 4/16" inch groups without a sweat. The pistol balances beautifully, and the trigger is light and awesome. Aim-->Hold-->Touch and go, very easy shooting gun.

I think the pistol is doing it's part and groups of approx .27 inch average, with light foreend support are adequate.

Now I am going to adjust the Zero of the pistol and start practicing offhand (no support). How does a goal of hitting 5 shots within 1/2 inch offhand sound to you let me know.

My observation: The tiny pellets are hard to get used to, have to figure out the front end. The cheaper pellets, "Gamo", lot better than the expensive pellets from the RWS sampler, my son said they never grouped well, so I did not even try them. Now I can get all the Gamo's from Walmart for $4.99 for 500.

Attaching URL from Photobucket to see the groups:

AIR PISTOL GROUPS 10 METERS with GAMO MATCH PELLS

Mommy's Boy(My son) seems to like the gun, has borrowed it again for the weekend!!

Waiting for your expert Input!

Satpal

Looking good.

Are we supposed to play 20 Questions to find out the make of the pistol or will you let us know before that?

Mack The Knife

Yup Satpal so what is this silly pneumatic pistole..

Hi Mack The Knife & Mr. NG:

Was gone over the weekend--Family outing.

The pistol in question is a HW 40 Pneumatic ($149.99), made in Germany, pumps similar to the HW 45 springer, by raising barrel.

Very light and well balanced compared to the HW 45. Grips too are very full and nice. Only bad point takes too much effort to cock, especially if I put a scope. Noise level too is high, real loud crack.

Son has taken it currently and plans to keep it for good. I have a Daisy Avanti 747 on backorder too, see when that one comes. That gun is said to be easier to cock and much queiter too. Hope it comes in 10 days, else I will just buy another HW 40.

Also bought a Crossman 1377 ($55) multi-pump as my hunting pistol. Currently this gun is undergoing valve, seal and hammer spring modifications. The trigger will also be modified to get rid of the Creep. Work is being done by a friends son, an expert Airgunsmith. After mods the gun will shoot at 675 Fps at 8 pumps with heavy pellets, versus 550 or so currently. The ME goes to 9 FP from 6 FP currently.

Tested one of this fellows modified 1377 with heavy hunting HP pellets. Tested on medium sized Chickens (hunting season is off so had to buy/shoot chickens at Poultry farm in Petaluma). From 15 metres the chickens drop "Thud", one shot in the chest. Tried it on several chickens at $4 Bucks a Pop. So the modified 1377 will be my second gun for hunting. Will put a 2X scope or Dot sight also. These modified guns group around 1.5 inch at 15 metres off hand, sufficient hunting accuracy to 15M/50 feet.

The Boy/Airgunsmith will be paid for parts and will get one of my nice Fishing rod/reel combo as appreciation for his services!

Have fun Guys!!

Satpal

The HW40 was a good choice.

Mack The Knife

Satpal_S";p="10634 wrote:Tested one of this fellows modified 1377 with heavy hunting HP pellets. Tested on medium sized Chickens (hunting season is off so had to buy/shoot chickens at Poultry farm in Petaluma). From 15 metres the chickens drop "Thud", one shot in the chest. Tried it on several chickens at $4 Bucks a Pop.

Satpal

Kanwar76:

Don't be shocked, the Chickens were young meat birds at a Poultry farm. Not full grown, yet were at least 1.5 times the size of Pigeons, a nice bird to shoot to see the effectiveness of the pellet pistol on pigeons. We released them one by one in the poultry's open space with trees and bushes. Were quite a racket to shoot. Lots of running around after them to get that fatal shot. Fast runners and could fly around too, a sight to watch. A couple of them even got away.

I learnt were quite the game to shoot with Air-pistol, at much less price compared to shooting birds on a preserve.

So next time wanna have some fun, find a chicken farm near you, release the birds, chase them with Air Arm of at least 9FP energy( don't use Shotgun, then it is too easy). Lots cheaper than Game birds at $3-4 a pop for chickens.

Don't feel sorry for the birds, they are destined for the slaughterhouse anyway!

Satpal

PS:Don't do this in India, it could be Illegal.