Indians For Guns

Does anyone know approx. what Foot Per Second number (.177 / .22 pellets) will pass the Deal Wood Test? - Thanks

Meetu: I've never actually met anybody who was asked to undergo the dreaded deal-wood test.
I understand it was used on airgun manufacturers in Calcutta years ago. seems to be one of those rules that's around if they want to hassle you.
In any case fps is only part of it. I've been able to "fail" a single ply test with Gsmith roundheads only to "pass" it with lightweight flatheads. In the latter case the pellet flattens itself on the surface of the wood and doesn't penetrate. The roundheads penetrate with great force. I used an IHP 35 (.177) about eight meters. Fantumfan's posts indicate that the IHP 35 coughs out pellets at about roughly 650 fps. Tirths has done a fine post on indian pellet weights. Hope this helps

Ashok

Thanks, Ashok - That was very helpful - Affly Meetu

-- Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:14 pm --

lazybones wrote:Fantumfan's posts indicate that the IHP 35 coughs out pellets at about roughly 650 fps. Tirths has done a fine post on indian pellet weights. Hope this helps

Ashok

Is this a chronoed fact or a rough guess? I was told long ago that it did 700 fps but I had no idea what 700fps .22 performance was like then. I am wagering that it does about 550 fps or less. Will borrow one and chrono it with Mastershot pellets.


Regards,

Dev

I can confirm Dev's prediction. My chronograph gives around the 570 mark using 12.5gr Marshall Shot pellets in .22 using my IHP 35, for an ME of just under 10ft/pd. These pellets aren't accurate though. In fact at distances over 10-15 meters, they spray everywhere. Decent quality imported pellets were too tight for my IHP, hence the upgrade to my HW90. Barracudas 21gr nestle very snugly in the '90's breech:)

Nevertheless, last year the old IHP accounted for dozens of rats at short ranges.

Going back to the deal wood test, Lazybones, you mention 'single ply'. The test is to be done with solid wood, not ply, if that's what you meant. I haven't managed to do the test, but seriously doubt that 1" of wood can be penetrated completely by any airgun with a lead pellet.

You're right Dev it's a guestimate. I guess (badly) it's about 650 with dieseling (take fantumfan's chrony figures from a dissimilar context, add hope and stir briskly).

ai: Deal wood is an old term, still used only for tea chests I believe. Since tea chests are made of single ply wood I'd guess deal wood refers to single ply - to my addled brain at least.
Now you know how many times I was dropped on the head as a kid

Ashok

Ashok,

There is a wood by the name of Deal (pronounced Dayal). In fact the doors in my house in Chandigarh are made of it. Looks pretty hard to me. Pity my Mom won't let me shoot holes through them, or we would have got an insight into the holy grail- Indian Power equivalent of FAC.

I'm always short of time when in Chd, but anyone in Punjab area should be able to get this wood from a dealer.

ai:
I just googled dealwood and got - " dealwood: a term loosely used to denote light timbers used for packing cases,crates and similar work ". This was the context I understood the term in.
The Deal/Dyal connection is interesting. Thanks, I didn't know that. As with all things connected with the shooting sports in India, this will probably end up in the Supreme Court for an opinion
Any idea if the rulebook specifies one inch ?

Dev/Sol/fantumfan/other chrony owners: any chance you could chrony an IHP 35 in .177 using Gsmith Competions (7.9 grains) ?
Payment in fermented offerings

Ashok

Lazybones, Abhijeet has posted the exact specifications of the wood and the test. It is easier to find that post than the Deal wood, so lets look for the wood (1" thick, no knots, 1square foot).

Ai is right to focus upon the criteria set-out by the legislative authorities. Taking them at their word may prove a better tactic than trying to interpret their words into numbers. If they say the gun mustn't penetrate that board, ok...we'll just have to adjust our power-wheels to 'low and shoot it at 450fps:)

All I know is that a .22 pellet weighing 14.5 grains, going at 670fps will get to page 257 in the phone directory. Not sure if that helps anyone though:)

lazybones wrote:ai:
I just googled dealwood and got - " dealwood: a term loosely used to denote light timbers used for packing cases,crates and similar work ". This was the context I understood the term in.
The Deal/Dyal connection is interesting. Thanks, I didn't know that. As with all things connected with the shooting sports in India, this will probably end up in the Supreme Court for an opinion
Any idea if the rulebook specifies one inch ?

Dev/Sol/fantumfan/other chrony owners: any chance you could chrony an IHP 35 in .177 using Gsmith Competions (7.9 grains) ?
Payment in fermented offerings

Ashok

Hi Ashok,

I will do the chrony as soon as I can lay my hands on an IHP 35. The problem is I had loaned one out to a friend who had a feral pest problem. It is shooting well enough in his hands. In fact so well that I think I'll have to pry it out.
What I figured is that in the pre-chrony days a .22 was expected to break a beer bottle or puncture one side of say a paint can. So that reference helped me to realise that about 550 or 600fps will give such a result (after chronying a rifle with such an ability). Normally one would just guess the ranges at which the air rifle was powerful, another favourite childhood chrony was a well watered lawn. The sound of the pellet smacking the water and the water displaced would normally impress one about an air rifle's power. It was just the most fun three or four kids could have grab some air rifle, pellets in hand or mouth and ye were good to go. I'm sure this suicidal tendency (using the mouth as a pellet magazine) has resulted in my warped inability to be an engineer, doctor or some other bada aadmi...

See I found something new to blame my total lack of application in the scholarly days.And apologies for this totally useless nostalgia trip.

Dev

-- Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:05 pm --

sol wrote:Ai is right to focus upon the criteria set-out by the legislative authorities. Taking them at their word may prove a better tactic than trying to interpret their words into numbers. If they say the gun mustn't penetrate that board, ok...we'll just have to adjust our power-wheels to 'low and shoot it at 450fps:)

All I know is that a .22 pellet weighing 14.5 grains, going at 670fps will get to page 257 in the phone directory. Not sure if that helps anyone though:)

Yep it does help cause these rough home chronies help a lot in doing a basic power check. For instance I thought that my QB 78 was doing some really good fps, while shooting it almost three years at various distances. Like for instance penetrating tree bark at 40+meters etc. A chrony reading revealed a max power 620 fps when freshly filled which went down to about 590fps after thirty shots. Not great numbers but with a well zeroed scope it will tumble stuff till 30m effortlessly.

My conclusion is that anything over 550 fps in .22 is more than enough for air rifle needs. Hey, that's why they are air rifles not .22 rimfires.

Dev

See http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2335

(3) Air guns, air rifles and air pistols which satisfy the following test, namely that - the projectiles discharged from such guns or pistols do not perforate a target 12 inches square formed by deal-wood boards of even grain, free from knots, planed on both sides and of thickness of 1/2" and 1" for air pistols and air guns/ rifles respectively:
Provided that in making and estimating the test the following conditions shall be observed, namely:-

(a) the weapon shall be held horizontally with the muzzle at a distance of five feet from the target,

(b) the test shall be repeated twenty times for each class of projectiles which can be discharged from the weapon; and

(c) perforation shall be deemed to be effected-
(i) in a case where the projectile is a dart, if the point of the dart pierces the back of the target, and
(ii) in any other case if the projectile passes completely through the back of the target.

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

dev

650fps is with .177 on IHP 35B with GSmith Competition pellets. Its around 450 for .22 IHP 35B with Diana Shot pellets

M.

dev wrote:
Is this a chronoed fact or a rough guess? I was told long ago that it did 700 fps but I had no idea what 700fps .22 performance was like then. I am wagering that it does about 550 fps or less. Will borrow one and chrono it with Mastershot pellets.

Regards,

Dev

-- Sat Apr 04, 2009 0:21 --

Done

Now where are those fermented offerings.... ROFL

M.

lazybones wrote:
Dev/Sol/fantumfan/other chrony owners: any chance you could chrony an IHP 35 in .177 using Gsmith Competions (7.9 grains) ?
Payment in fermented offerings

Ashok

More than 16 ft-lbs sure fails the test. So anyone thinking about powerful PCP, careful!!