Indians For Guns

I am planning to purchase diana ar8 airgun whose fps is 1350. So the gun exceeds the 20 joules limit. So i wanted to know if it is lefal to own this gun. Also will there be a problem if I carry it while i am travelling?

1350 fps is just the 'potential' of the airgun which it realizes when it is in USA (land of opportunities ). In India, they are already power limited to less than 20 J. No seller would like to be implicated in Arms act !!

Use heavy bullets to keep the fps down and the gun accurate. The velocity stated by companies are achieved by using the lightest pellets. Its just a marketing strategy. I don't think there will be any trouble regading guns in .177 caliber in India.

Does anyone have the experience of buying diana guns?
Is it true that the indian sellers drop the power of their imported guns to meet the 20 joules power limit?

Metallica wrote:Does anyone have the experience of buying diana guns?
Is it true that the indian sellers drop the power of their imported guns to meet the 20 joules power limit?

Drop power of springer ? How ?

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Yes I guess its possible because in UK the rifles need to be sub 12 fpe. But I wanted to know if Indian sellers do the same. Anyone who has the experience of buying imported airguns

One can get better idea by talking to 10kya or Kheiberg. They import airguns and have profound knowledge.

Regards

Mayank

I have both diana 460 and 350 taken from kiehberg (syndicate innovations). These imported guns have regulated velocity, which produce muzzle energy much less than 20 joule. I have an imported prochrono and meaured the M.E. The 460 is giving 11 to 13 fpe by using RWS pellets ranging from 8.2 gr to 9.3 gr. Similarly the Diana 350 is giving 19.8 Joule by using HN Baracuda match in 10.65 gr. The Indian importers are not reducing the velocity of these guns. One can find the reasons of reduced power by checking the service portal of diana website. I think this will serve your queries.
Regards

narach93 wrote:I have both diana 460 and 350 taken from kiehberg (syndicate innovations). These imported guns have regulated velocity, which produce muzzle energy much less than 20 joule. I have an imported prochrono and meaured the M.E. The 460 is giving 11 to 13 fpe by using RWS pellets ranging from 8.2 gr to 9.3 gr. Similarly the Diana 350 is giving 19.8 Joule by using HN Baracuda match in 10.65 gr. The Indian importers are not reducing the velocity of these guns. One can find the reasons of reduced power by checking the service portal of diana website. I think this will serve your queries.
Regards

Hi narach
Happy to hear you were having both guns
I need advice to choose between 350 and 460
In price point of view i am getting 460 as the lower price.
Could you elaborate your experience on both guns. My expectation is it should long range and accurate.
So which gun should i go? I had seen Diana 350 has more power than 460 in Diana official site.
Pls advice?


Rover

Dear Rover. Sorry for delay. My experience with 460 and 350 is outstanding. Both have their individuality thus difficult to compare. However I will ponder on couple of features. The 350 is 48 inch long which is suitable for large frame shooters. 460 is more sofisticated than 350 and it has amazing accuracy than 350. The 350 is vulnerable for barrel drooping problem whereas 460 having a fixed barrel does not have this problem. The 460 availble in our country has only 13 to 14 joule while 350 has 19 joule power. Long range is a relative phenomena. For me 30 mt is long range for an air rifle. You can enjoy target shooting at this range. Thus 460 will be better for your choice. Hope this information will help you.
Regards

narach93 wrote:Dear Rover. Sorry for delay. My experience with 460 and 350 is outstanding. Both have their individuality thus difficult to compare. However I will ponder on couple of features. The 350 is 48 inch long which is suitable for large frame shooters. 460 is more sofisticated than 350 and it has amazing accuracy than 350. The 350 is vulnerable for barrel drooping problem whereas 460 having a fixed barrel does not have this problem. The 460 availble in our country has only 13 to 14 joule while 350 has 19 joule power. Long range is a relative phenomena. For me 30 mt is long range for an air rifle. You can enjoy target shooting at this range. Thus 460 will be better for your choice. Hope this information will help you.
Regards

Thanks for the reply
How come Indian version has lower power(19joules).and how is possible in springer?I have checked Diana official site and it is 26 joules.and I heard some of my friends able to hit the target up to 160 feet.
Could u tell how far u have tried?

Rovet

Rover solomon wrote:

narach93 wrote:Dear Rover. Sorry for delay. My experience with 460 and 350 is outstanding. Both have their individuality thus difficult to compare. However I will ponder on couple of features. The 350 is 48 inch long which is suitable for large frame shooters. 460 is more sofisticated than 350 and it has amazing accuracy than 350. The 350 is vulnerable for barrel drooping problem whereas 460 having a fixed barrel does not have this problem. The 460 availble in our country has only 13 to 14 joule while 350 has 19 joule power. Long range is a relative phenomena. For me 30 mt is long range for an air rifle. You can enjoy target shooting at this range. Thus 460 will be better for your choice. Hope this information will help you.
Regards

Thanks for the reply
How come Indian version has lower power(19joules).and how is possible in springer?I have checked Diana official site and it is 26 joules.and I heard some of my friends able to hit the target up to 160 feet.
Could u tell how far u have tried?

Rovet

Just as UK and Germany have low power versions of popular AR, Indian versions are power limited (as is required by law). In 460, power is limited by a thin washer behind the breech seal. The washer has smaller ID, thus reducing transfer port diameter. In 350, a smaller and weaker spring simply reduces the power.

Dear Master and Rover. Thanks for the information about 'controlled velocity' of Diana. However one should not try to raise the MV. The available power is enough to shoot upto 50 meters. However the quoted 26 joule is only achievable at the sea level. The ME decreases to about 10% at 2500 ft from mean sea level. I am experiencing this ultra reduced velocity!
Regards.

Interesting points there!!
Here's some I may add ...
Dear Narach93, you r right about the drop in ME relative to sea level. However, the Energy at the point of impact is barely affected at all.
Here's how it works - the ME reduces bcos less volume of the air gets compressed (thin low density air as sea level rises).
The Energy at PoI gets barely affected bcos the pellet has to trverse a low density air medium on its path.

Second, to add to what MAster said about how guns are customised for differently regulated maarkets......on a more fool proof scale, manufacturers like Walther and others alter the TP lengths and dia and spring specs for different shipment lots ranging from 6FPE German market, to 12 UK, and I course the unregulated USA. For example, The LGU model sold in all these places can range from 6fpe to up to 27. That is the stupendous range for manoeuvre there can be if one knows what one is dealing with.
Regs,
Prashant

One imp factor I missed to mention in my last post is - stroke, that manufacturers alter to conform to legal limits of diff countries products get shipped to. To put an example - the underlever LGU for German market is 70mm stroke and the same one for UK is 88mm, the latter with a stiffer spring and a slightly tweaked TP specs has been reported to deliver up to 17 FPe.
The max stroke alteration that I have been able to manage as a shed tuner is of 13.5mm so far on a local Indian AR....long stroked it from 72 to 86mm. Of course it was a project in itself...quiet nightmarish because it essentially is designed as a short stroke AR. And to extend it beyond reasonable limits required altering everything from the piston size, cocking slot, shaft to base block and comp tube. Of course, the result has been more than worth....super smooth, dead accurate with barely any hold sensitivity, visible energy enhancement and no trace of dieseling . Originally, it was snappy but not once could it shoot without dieseling (typical of short stroke designs).

Regards,
Prashant