Indians For Guns

Air rifles are definitely not suitable for shooting Foxes and are decidedly `iffy` for Hare - a female Hare can be three times the weight of a buck Rabbit and can be found up to 12lb ( 5kg ) in weight although they have been recorded up to 14 lbs.

i guess a few air guns can be effectively used as a nice hunting weapon...like the south korean made 'Career Dragon Slayer .50 cal Air Rifle by ShinSung'...,.50 calibre 200-grain pellet should pack a good punch...
links-http://www.airgundepot.com/career-drago ... r-771.html

regards sanjiv

Yes, those `magnum` type air rifles might be suitable for Fox......except that in the UK any air rifle with a muzzle energy over 12 ft lbs is classified as a firearm and can only be held on a FAC. As most .22 lr rifles are considerably less expensive than those air rifles - and more powerful.....and easier to get hold of - the very high power air rifles are virtually unknown here.

Last weekend on a bright sunny day when the temperature was just about normal. I endured a stroll down the edge of my driveway, just in time to spot a rabbit standing alert on a log in the ravine. I rushed back to the garage and loaded my pellet gun. I approached the rabbit at an angle, up to a distance of 20 yards. I placed the air gun at his shoulder-neck junction and fired. The rabbit tumbled backward onto the rocks behind him, wrenched momentarily, then ceased to emit all life signs. The pellet had sailed through the neck, severing arteries, and the windpipe, then tumbled about in the chest cavity, before ultimately shattering the forelimb. The shot was made with a high powered air rifle from Diana. Airgun hunts are pretty cool as well.

Imran

Other expert air gunners can give a better opinion on airgun power range etc and going for Hare or bird.

Issue as shooter pointed out in India is blanket ban on "hunting"

Which kind of Diana airgun do you have? Is Diana same as HW or Beeman german make?

Even in states like New Jersey and New York ( exception not a norm) one requires legal permit to purchase air gun especially the .22 one.

Best
NG

The range of an airgun, for hunting, is not determined by the power of the airgun but by the ability of the shooter to keep his/her hits within the killing zone. In the case of airguns and the small game it is used on, the killing zone is no more than 1" to 1.5" in diameter.

The Brits do quite a bit of airgun hunting and according to them a terminal energy of 4 to 5 ft.lbs. is enough to kill a rabbit, provided the shot placement is correct - a brain shot being the prefered, if not the only option. What Imran shot is most probably a hare as I am not sure if rabbits can be found in the wild in Pakistan.

The pellet size too makes a difference to the size of the kill zone doesn't it?
Checkout this kill zone comparison.



The kill zone for a Webley Patriot at 50 yards has been determined to be 3 inches.
Regards,
Yaj.

Yaj,

Wouldn't know about woodchucks as I am not part of any U.S. airgun hunting forum and cannot recall any discussion regarding them on the Airgun BBS.

The diagrams for .177" and .22" look feasible but that for the .25" is not going to result in an instant kill if not placed in the brain or heart. I am pretty sure of that and I must add for the record that I am only refering to humane 'lights-out' shots and not death through woundings. Even at 28 ft.lbs. I have my doubts if a Patriot can swiftly kill a gut shot woodchuck.

Mack The Knife

Mack The Knife Bana";p="27670 wrote: The diagrams for .177" and .22" look feasible but that for the .25" is not going to result in an instant kill if not placed in the brain or heart. I am pretty sure of that and I must add for the record that I am only refering to humane 'lights-out' shots and not death through woundings. Even at 28 ft.lbs. I have my doubts if a Patriot can swiftly kill a gut shot woodchuck.

Mack The Knife

Mack The Knife could you help me out with what kill zone exactly defines? Is it the area around the passage of the pellet through which enough energy is transmitted to cause massive trauma and a humane death?
If so a 3 inch area even around the abdomen would cause send the animal in to shock immediately considering the major blood vessels there (equivalent of the abdominal aorta)? Just wondering.

Check out the energy at the target



Regards,
Yaj.

This is the article giving the info i posted above.


http://www.velocitypress.com/BeemanKodiak.shtml

Yaj

" Even at 28 ft.lbs. I have my doubts if a Patriot can swiftly kill a gut shot woodchuck"

I don`t doubt it, I`m certain of it. Have you seen how hefty a Woodchuck is compared to a Rabbit ?

There has been quite a lot of discussion about how poor the accuracy is of a certain US made .17HMR rifle which has resulted in rather too many woundings of Groundhogs - not too dissimilar to Woodchucks. These have required despatching because the animals don`t die quickly of their wounds.......and a .17HMR makes a LOT more energy than an air rifle.....several times the energy of an FAC rated Patriot even.

Mack The Knife could you help me out with what kill zone exactly defines? Is it the area around the passage of the pellet through which enough energy is transmitted to cause massive trauma and a humane death?

No. Generally speaking, the kill zone refers to the brain, heart, lungs and CNS. So if you hit a ground hog in the backside it is not going to result in a humane death.

I am not sure but I vaguely recall reading that if the liver in some or all animals is shot, it sends out an enzyme (?) that results in a very quick kill. Like I said, I am not sure.

If so a 3 inch area even around the abdomen would cause send the animal in to shock immediately considering the major blood vessels there (equivalent of the abdominal aorta)?

Probably and you being a surgeon know better. However, from what I have read, gut shot animals rarely have a quick death unless the projectile hits and damages a vital organ as it traverses through the body.

Check out the energy at the target.

Depending on the pellet, there is between 18 and 22 ft.lbs. of energy left at 50 yards. This is a very useful energy level and considering that a ground hog can grow quite big, it's possible that all the energy is transfered to the body instead of just a fraction when the pellet zips through.

Mark, you have probably had some experience on this subject. What's your opinion?

Mack The Knife

Grumpy";p="27683 wrote:" Even at 28 ft.lbs. I have my doubts if a Patriot can swiftly kill a gut shot woodchuck"

I don`t doubt it, I`m certain of it. Have you seen how hefty a Woodchuck is compared to a Rabbit ?

There has been quite a lot of discussion about how poor the accuracy is of a certain US made .17HMR rifle which has resulted in rather too many woundings of Groundhogs - not too dissimilar to Woodchucks. These have required despatching because the animals don`t die quickly of their wounds.......and a .17HMR makes a LOT more energy than an air rifle.....several times the energy of an FAC rated Patriot even.

Grumpy,

Since you use this calibre, how easily does this round fragment (I am told it does) soon after contact? Or could it be that the bullet is literally zipping through and transfering much energy in to the body?

Mack The Knife

Grumpy";p="27683 wrote:" Even at 28 ft.lbs. I have my doubts if a Patriot can swiftly kill a gut shot woodchuck"

I don`t doubt it, I`m certain of it. Have you seen how hefty a Woodchuck is compared to a Rabbit ?

There has been quite a lot of discussion about how poor the accuracy is of a certain US made .17HMR rifle which has resulted in rather too many woundings of Groundhogs - not too dissimilar to Woodchucks. These have required despatching because the animals don`t die quickly of their wounds.......and a .17HMR makes a LOT more energy than an air rifle.....several times the energy of an FAC rated Patriot even.

Actually Grumpy i have seen woodchucks only in pictures on the net.

And as Rusty has pointed out a smaller calibre ( .17) with a higher energy may go through the target without much energy loss in the target hence causing less damage? that is unless it hits bone etc.

Rusty what i was wondering was whether a 3 inch shock area in the abdominal region of a relatively small animal would cause enough injury to the large blood vessels in the area/ soft organs like liver,spleen to cause a massive haemorrhage and if not instant a pretty quick death.

Regards,
Yaj.

From what I read woodchuck range from 4-14 pound.Pretty much in the range of Indian hare and those I have seen plenty of!
Basically isnt the idea to cause enough damage so that the the animal doesn't escape and crawl off somewhere to die in agony, the shocked animal may have to be despatched as a follow up occasionally? But isnt that the same even with large calibres used with big game?
Regards,
Yaj.