Indians For Guns

Hello my dear Friends
As I am new to the field of airguns ,I am unable to guess What is EXACTLY tuning. Yeah I've searched for it and got a rough idea that it deals with lubing and changing the spring, but what is exactly involved in it? Also how I know if it is the right time to tune?(mine is new probably 200shots)
Also can I do it on my own or such an action will lead to this ?
Regards!!
Suyash

Some useful information from here: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/agtuning.html

Ah yes, “so just what is an air gun tune?” you might ask. Well, the answer is both simple and complex. The simplest answer is that an air gun tune is a procedure performed on an air gun whereby the gun is disassembled and every one of the guns’ important working parts are carefully cleaned, inspected, repaired, modified or upgraded if necessary or desired, then lubricated and reassembled. The goal of a tune usually depends upon the desired results, but the most basic tunes are intended to smooth out the operation of the gun, improve accuracy, improve operational life, and quiet down any spring or action noise as much as possible.


For most air guns a basic tune is sufficient and a great way to ensure a trouble free and enjoyable shooter that will give years of dependable and fun service. It’s a fact of life that very few air guns are going to be operating to their full potential right out of the box, and a good tune can help to bring out the best in a new rifle. It is also a fact of air gunning that sometimes brand new air guns have damaged seals or left over machining debris inside them that can severely affect performance, and even seriously damage the internal components outright the moment the gun is first fired.

Mass produced air guns simply by their sheer numbers are going to have a few “lemons” get through with the good ones, and an air gun tune is an excellent way to catch these potential problems before they ever get a chance to really gum things up.

Please also check under Gunsmithing - there are a few posts about tuning airguns and if you specify the make and model of your air rifle the air gun Gurus at IFG should be able to give you some pointers.

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Ckkalyan said
"and if you specify the make and model of your air rifle the air gun Gurus at IFG should be able to give you some pointers."
My gun is the unheard ESA model 35. I hope experts/owners would help.
I have a question. How do I know if my rifle needs tuning? I can't hear any internal parts rattling. It's seller claimed 450fps(though I think it was a wild guess!!) I can surely tell its much more than that. So shall I think that it is 'factory tuned' and leave it as it is for few K's of rounds or tune it right away?
AND can I tune it on my own or it'll need a gunsmith?
Regards
Suyash

Suyash wrote:Ckkalyan said
"and if you specify the make and model of your air rifle the air gun Gurus at IFG should be able to give you some pointers."
My gun is the unheard ESA model 35. I hope experts/owners would help.
I have a question. How do I know if my rifle needs tuning? I can't hear any internal parts rattling. It's seller claimed 450fps(though I think it was a wild guess!!) I can surely tell its much more than that. So shall I think that it is 'factory tuned' and leave it as it is for few K's of rounds or tune it right away?
AND can I tune it on my own or it'll need a gunsmith?
Regards
Suyash

> If your AR is new & has fired only 200 pellets, then there is no hurry to get it tuned....
> Usually it takes an AR about 500+ shots to settle down, by which time you'll be able to assess its accuracy & smoothness of performance and also as to what brand & weight of pellet it handles better.
> If you are not familiar with the working / parts of your AR, please do not attempt to tune on your own...besides to open the action you need a 'Spring Press' & appropriate tools, as else you can injure yourself....
> Apart from lubes, there are other inputs such as:
1. Type & quality of Spring
2. Choice of rear Guide & Top Hat
3. Selection of a good Seal
4. Adding a Thrust Bearing on the Piston
5. Polishing & balancing the piston
6. Eccentricity of the piston rod
7. Surface angle of the Trigger Sear & that of the piston rod
8. Alignment of Rear & Front sights
> Finally expert tuners are few & far between who understand & emote with the functioning of an AR...So be careful while handing over your AR to a Gunsmith for tuning!
Good Luck
Briha

Dear Suyash,
I have been reading your posts and some of them, especially the one on using bars of soap as a substitute for ballistic gel, completely convinced me that you are a teenager, probably around 13 or 14.
Please correct the information in your profile. You have years to go before you finally turn 57

Cheers and enjoy the company of knowledgeable men on this unique forum.
By the way, Brihaji is actually 76 years old and the eldest among members based in India. Please don't address him as "Briha."

God bless
TC

Dear tc
I would like to remind you that the title was WIERD experiment. After googling for some time I found that soap could be a 'possible' . Substitute for ballistic gel. Yet I've clearly mentioned that I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOAP AND BALLISTIC GEL.
And wait for a bit I'm getting ballistic gel (materials)and a crony from my relatives from US!!! .hope I'll unveil some mysteries. And I agree the experiment is silly (though I tried my best to make it serious).
And I truly RESPECT brihaji . all his posts are precise enough to answer any queries
Regards!!
Suyash

Dear Suyash,
My post was not about soaps or ballistic gel but about your real age.
Now you have only drawn more attention to it through your boyish attempts to escape and evade
Please rectify your profile. You are not a 57 year old man but a teenager. That is the reality. So why tell a lie ? Hasn't anyone told you that truth is the most powerful weapon in the universe, more powerful than any of those we discuss and admire here.

There is no harm in being a young boy. In fact most of us here wish we could go back and complete a few unfinished missions

God bless
TC

PS: Please save your folks the trouble of importing ballistic gel from the USA. They might run into trouble while explaining the purpose.

PS 2: In real life you should be actually addressing me as "uncle" because I will soon turn 48

I hate to pour cold water on a boyish experiment. "Ballistic gel" (and substitutes named here) are pointless for experimenting with air guns because of very low energies. If penetration is the question, then IFG members have described a variety of alternate targets that give some idea of "penetration" - such as plasticine (modelling clay) magazines and tin cans or sheets of plywood.

Ballistic gel's USP is that it behaves like human or animal flesh and is useful for modelling the damage done to animal/human tissues by bullets and high velocity shrapnel. In this connection I want to point out that low energy firearms and air rifles are somewhat similar in that they tend to describe a single tube like path through tissues - with damage being extended somewhat by tumbling. With air rifles the energy is so low that if tumbling occurs the pellet comes to a standstill almost instantly.

High energy projectiles are where ballistic gel really comes into its own - allowing modelling of damage without shooting an animal - apart from being transparent enough to allow high speed photography. The high energy of a high-velocity firearm or shrapnel does much damage around the "tube like path" of the projectile because it causes an explosive expansion of gel/flesh which tears nerves, blood vessels and tendons several centimeters away from the actual bullet path. This causes great pain and excessive blood loss. It also causes small entry wounds and huge exit wounds - like hole in forehead while back of head is blown off. Such action is zero with air rifles because of low energies. With air rifles soaps and plasticine are good substitutes. Ballistic gel starts looking disappointing after the first 2-3 shots with a low power weapon such as an air rifle.

Please pardon me for saying this. Air guns are good fun for the sport of shooting/plinking and in countries where it is allowed (not India) - small game hunting. Those who need more energy need to go for some firearm. Those who need even more energy will need to go for higher caliber firearms such as 12.5 mm or 23 or 30 mm. When even bigger energies are needed, best to choose 130 mm or 155 mm artillery. If more than that is needed then we are out of firearm league and into missiles. The point being that if you get an air rifle - get it for the sport and not for doing massive damage to some target.

bennedose wrote:I hate to pour cold water on a boyish experiment. "Ballistic gel" (and substitutes named here) are pointless for experimenting with air guns because of very low energies. If penetration is the question, then IFG members have described a variety of alternate targets that give some idea of "penetration" - such as plasticine (modelling clay) magazines and tin cans or sheets of plywood.

Ballistic gel's USP is that it behaves like human or animal flesh and is useful for modelling the damage done to animal/human tissues by bullets and high velocity shrapnel. In this connection I want to point out that low energy firearms and air rifles are somewhat similar in that they tend to describe a single tube like path through tissues - with damage being extended somewhat by tumbling. With air rifles the energy is so low that if tumbling occurs the pellet comes to a standstill almost instantly.

High energy projectiles are where ballistic gel really comes into its own - allowing modelling of damage without shooting an animal - apart from being transparent enough to allow high speed photography. The high energy of a high-velocity firearm or shrapnel does much damage around the "tube like path" of the projectile because it causes an explosive expansion of gel/flesh which tears nerves, blood vessels and tendons several centimeters away from the actual bullet path. This causes great pain and excessive blood loss. It also causes small entry wounds and huge exit wounds - like hole in forehead while back of head is blown off. Such action is zero with air rifles because of low energies. With air rifles soaps and plasticine are good substitutes. Ballistic gel starts looking disappointing after the first 2-3 shots with a low power weapon such as an air rifle.

Please pardon me for saying this. Air guns are good fun for the sport of shooting/plinking and in countries where it is allowed (not India) - small game hunting. Those who need more energy need to go for some firearm. Those who need even more energy will need to go for higher caliber firearms such as 12.5 mm or 23 or 30 mm. When even bigger energies are needed, best to choose 130 mm or 155 mm artillery. If more than that is needed then we are out of firearm league and into missiles. The point being that if you get an air rifle - get it for the sport and not for doing massive damage to some target.

as per my finding on ballistic gel, through Google I got the impression that it is for use by the forensic department or cartridge designers, and since hunting is banned it is of no practical use to us. Thanks bennedose for clearing the issue.

Regards

Ballistic gel was cooked by one IFGian some months ago. It came out pretty good & they compared various air rifles with it. That sounds like fun to know the penetration effect. If OP wants to do that solo for his peace of mind, who are us to stand in his way right? I'm a casual plinker, so doing such 'research' is not in my schedule. Just don't get swallowed by customs people for trying to procure "forensics tools". At the end of the day, we are talking peashooters.

About tuning, let the new gun atleast break-in. This is like asking a newborn to pump iron. Don't do it pls.

After say 500-1000 shots, when the twanging & what-nots start to get a bit too much, open it up. Proper tuning is like blueprinting, only that there is no actual blueprint to refer to. Tightening the tolerances, making custom parts, lots of mental simulations and above all, a lot of reading up. The procedures & results vary from gun to gun so there is no single SOP as such to follow here.

Briha already mentioned the standard specifics here & he is among the best to get guidance from. Your tuning result is gonna depend on how you put all those steps into your own gun & make it better than how it was. And it does not happen that often if a novice try to do it all at once. So read up A LOT. You will need it once the gun has its guts out.

@Brihacharanji I love the way you answer; it's pointed and answers all the questions.

@ "UNCLE"TC -' uncle' please Don't pull my leg

@ bennedose- Thanks for not pouring water on 'boyish' experiment. I would love to have a 155mm artillery BUT it would require a BIT LARGE piece of ballistic gel. And I am dropping the idea of ballistic gel for AR as after reading your post I've understood that it has NO practical use.

@ estousandy- thanks for your information on tuning

suyash - soap and other things can still be very interesting to play with. See this - it starts with a soap bar

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bennedose wrote:suyash - soap and other things can still be very interesting to play with. See this - it starts with a soap bar

[youtube][/youtube]

Ah! What a treat to watch...especially the coconut shell & Soda can
The slo-mo was just like "Poetry in Motion"
BTW...I once tried my Samurai 22 cal on 3 bars of transparent Pears soap cakes stacked one behind the other...
The pellet went thro' 2 & embedded in the third 3/4th of the way!!!!
Briha

@bennedose- Really a good one!!! I wish I had a high speed camera!
@Brihaji -My ESA pierced a bit more than 3/4 pears.Do you know the velocity of samurai?