Indians For Guns

Hi All,

I have been planning to buy the Precihole AR since the day it was launched, but the niggles that people had reported in the forum forced to keep myself away from the acquisition of the same.
Now, it seems, is the right time to take the plunge, as I see many happy customers and find many recommending it.
Am looking for a .22 now as i already own an IHP35 in .177 and more aligned towards getting a NX - The Scorpius.

NX or SX?
Am a bit concerned about a few comments from some people that the NX piston looses pressure and the rifle lacks power after about 2K to 3K shots.
Is it a proven piston concept from Precihole yet?
Does any of the existing customers notice drop in power on their NX ARs?

Auto or Manual safety?
Heard/ read that the Aimco sells only Manual safety ARs and from other channels only we can source the Auto safety ARs.
Is this true?
One basic question here - While cocking the AR, in case of Auto safety, the AR goes to safe mode and needs to switch back to arm the AR to fire it and in case of Manual ones, the user can choose to keep the AR safe or ready to fire; this is my understanding is this correct?
In that context, to keep things simple, Manual safety is sufficient (better choice) as it would make the system less complicated.

Karbin or Normal barrel?
Had a concern if the Karbin would be as powerful and accurate as the normal barrel AR.
This question was clearly addressed by Brihaji's one os the earlier posts, thanks for that.
But on searching the forum, could not find any posts pertaining to the Precihole Karbin model from owners.
Was wondering if someone could shed some light on their experiences.

What Stock Finish?
This is tricky one, I simply love the wooden stock and it was very difficult to accept the fiber once initially.
But eventually started liking the fiber one and was thinking of getting the Camo finish for my Scorpius.
However, a few posts in the forum is making me think of choosing the basic black stock, as the Camo tends to fade off pretty soon.

Is the Scope Rail/ grove safe & functional?
Am planning to mount a scope on the AR and would like to be sure if it is safe to do so on Preciholes' scope grove.
I have seen the groves to be too shallow and do not feel very confident in mounting scopes which happens to be expensive than the AR on it.
Is it advisable to go ahead with mounting the scope on the AR?
If mounting a scope, is it advisable to go for a single piece mount or a two piece one?

Friends - Please guide me with your thoughts and suggestions, so that I can make the best decision.

-Arvind S.

Arvind, why not go for an imported AR if one Indian rifle is raising so many questions in your mind. One of the reasons I haven't laid my hands on the NX/SX.

The following is purely my personal opinion.

1. Go for the NX over the SX. Do not worry about loss in power. I have been shooting mine for quite some time and can vouch for its performance.
2. Not sure how aimco sells them, but i am pretty sure that the factory makes them with only auto safety. Ideally the auto safety is better since the gun is on safe by default every time it is cocked. It is just a matter of clicking the safety off before you take your shot, there is no complication to that.
3. Karbin or full length has to be your personal preference. There is no rocket science to it and velocity loss, if any, will be negligible.
4. Someone else will have to advise on the durability of the other colour finishes as I have mine in black. The stock itself is pretty well built though the hollow butt is a compromise you will have to live with.
5. The scope grove is perfectly fine. Only make sure to mount a spring rated scope on it. Also you dont need to get a scope that is more expensive than the rifle as it wont be of much use for the distances that the rifle can accurately shoot at. A good 4x-40 scope should suffice for a max range of 35-50yards with the preci. Use whatever money you can spare to buy good pellets, preferably precipells or JSBs. Avoid other locally made pellets as they wont do justice to the accuracy this rifle is capable of.
Sorry if my pointers are too brief, typing on the cellphone is a pain.

I think it is always better to go for a single piece scope mount on air rifles.

Automatic safety and manual safety are a matter for choice. I find the safety catch on the Precihole Orion less convenient than the breech safety button of an Weihrauch HW 35 that I used to own. I have the manual saftey variety -. My personal opinion is that the person who holds the rifle is the single most important safety feature in single shot, break barrel air rifles. It is a different issue for firearms and multiple shot PCP air rifles which are safer with a safety catch that can be engaged between shots.

I have given up on imported air rifles. Apart from cost, I am not a competition shooter and I think the local industry must be encouraged to develop. Even prize imported rifles lose power and fail over time - unless you are an occasional shooter who simple stores your weapon for show after shooting 3-4 shots every month. I shoot hundreds of pellets a month.

Thanks a ton to have taken time to read my long post and provide your advise.

@ebenezer : I would be more than happy to go for an imported AR, had I had the availability at the right price.
What happens here is that the ARs that cost about $100 to $500 (Rs.6K to 30K) in the US is imported to India and sold at 70K to 1.8L.
Recently I was checking with one of the dealers in B'lore and I was offered with Benjamin Marauder in .25 (sold in the US at not more than $590 (Rs.36K)) for Rs. 1.8L, without accessories. I wonder how they manage to sneak in with these restricted bore ARs. And am quite sure I will run into legal troubles while owning this restricted caliber AR without Arms permit.
Since I neither have arms permit nor Rifle club membership, importing ARs myself is out of question in normal course.
If there is a new piece available at the right price am game, but the wait has been too long for that though...

@kshitij : Your comments are really helpful and confidence inspiring to go with my guts.
Since about 16K is at stake wanted to be really sure if am making the right choice and did not want to blame my guts later.
Thanks for taking the pain in typing the long reply point by point, on your phone.
Coming to the scope - Do we have a choice there as well? None of the scopes are available for less than 10K, even from genuine sellers. One of dealers in B'lore quoted 24K for Bushnell 4X32 scope; God knows if its original. Am looking for one like 2-7X32 or 4-9X40 kinds.

@bennedose : Yes, I completely agree with you that the single shot, break barrels would not need the auto safety, as we do not usually carry the AR cocked, though it can be done on the NX. That was exactly the reason I was thinking of keeping it simple and go for manual safety option, if available, so as to avoid unwanted technical complications.
Am a casual shooter and might fire about 30 to 50 pellets a month (only on weekends).

Apologies for keeping the posts lengthy, I do not have anybody in my friends circle from the shooting fraternity and hence IFG is the only place for me to discuss all my questions and concerns on this topic, despite staying in the big city of Bangalore. Also for the same reason, wouldnt be able to troubleshoot/ fix many issues on the AR on my own and would need help from experts. Other option I may have is to take it to the gun stores for fixing, but for the NX, there are no many experts around in stores and so the decision of NX/ SX is crucial (if NX is trouble maker).

Hmm... too many fundas being thrown around.
Accidents are not intentional, they happen when you least expect them or have your attention diverted somewhere else. So single shot or not, break barrel or not, an auto safety is a good thing to have. Especially for a newbie who has exactly zero experience in practical gun safety while left on his own and or a experienced person who might tend to become over confident

It is not about whether you shoot 5 or 500 pellets, it is about how well you are able to shoot them. We spend almost every weekend(including today morning) putting as many pellets as possible in the same hole at distances from 50 to a 100yards. On an average we shoot about 2-300 pellets and on rare crazy days even a tin of 500 pellets in a single day.
Even if you intend to shoot 50 shots, you'd want them to be as accurate as possible, right? With a break barrel air rifle, it would be essential to have some thing that doesnt tire you down cocking it, for which the gas ram is the best bet.

Speak to members who have well tuned air rifles of other makes as well as the NX100, and see what they recommend. Brihaji, is one such senior member.

Also, speak to Precihole and other manufacturers and ask them what kind of testing they do to ensure the longevity of their products. The replies from the factories should give you a very clear idea what to go for

Kshitij has succinctly cover all the points, i would add that Precihole AR are precision machined, so cutting a dove tail grove is not exactly challenging even as some Indian AR have shoddily made dove tail.
what is more important here is a good quality scope rings, poor quality is the reason for the creep you mentioned, reason some good scope rings cost as much as the scope.
base NX version should not be more than 12.5K, nimma Bengluru is extremely notorious for in-your-face overcharging across the board throwing your purchase decision into a infinite loop.
as for the scope you will surprise yourself how reasonable the price is provided you do the due diligence and search the forum, the chase is actually more fun and i do not want to spoil it.
rest assured its a cost effective AR and very accurate one and if you understand precision engineering/tooling then you will have no difficulty lapping one up and declaring it as a steal.
hope it helps.

@kshitij - I get your point, even I have had those days, when I was at native with couple of friends and had long distance backyards. I have put through atleast 10 to 12 tins (pack of 500s) of pellets on my IHP till date. I wouldnt dare to claim myself to be a great shot, am still in learning phase every day. Now that am settled in B'lore for more than 10 years, in apartments, am facing issues with finding time and space to achieve the desired result. Even if I have time and space I wouldnt want to shoot 300 or 500 pellets a day, if I feel satisfied with perfectly placed 10 shots I might call it a day. So for Gas Ram vs Springer, cocking effort is not at all a deciding factor for me.

Well coming to friends, I do not know any of the IFGians in person, other than through their posts here. And for some reason despite having my PMs activated, all my messages are held up in the Outbox. So am unable to contact any users here.

-Arvind S.

Sent you PM buddy. See if you got it.

Ultimate Sniper wrote:cocking effort is not at all a deciding factor for me.

If cocking effort tires you then you could try some less strenous alternative like photography.

After all this, do let us know what you finally decided on

kshitij wrote:Sent you PM buddy. See if you got it.

Nope I have not got your PM It seems there is some problem, incoming and outgoing messages are being blocked for some reason.

-Arvind S.

Regarding durability of the Finish in wood stock /camo.... it is not durable and the paint starts to wear off very fast. I had to apply clearcoat to prevent further degradation...
(mine was one of their initial stock and things may have improved) I had sent the stock to precihole for re-finishing and should get it back in a day or two. will do some further tests and reply.

One more thing i have noticed in my .22 scorpious (may be specific to my rifle) only master shot export quality fits correctly. the precipell, gamo magnum, diablo exact.. does not fit. it is too tight and i have to literally force the pellets into the breech. i have stopped using them because the forcing may damage the pellet and affect accuracy. so incase you are buying off the shelf, i would suggest you check the rifle with your intended pellet.

@AnandNair : Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hope you get a good Camo refinish on the stock from Precihole. Please share details and your review, once you get it back.

IFGians, Couple of specific questions on the Nitro piston:-
Qn 1: Incase the gas pressure loss is inevitable, what could be a possible solution? Can the pressure be reinstated by any chance? I know it is not a PCP where we can refill the gas in the piston, but Is there any way to revive the power on the piston, or flat replacement is the only known solution in the case of Precihole?

Qn 2: Is it possible to switch back and forth on the power house in Precihole? Like, make an NX into an SX and vise-versa? Are the power plants interchangeable in Precihole?
Just wanted to be sure, if I go with Scorpius and then later find it to have power loss, then make it an SX by throwing away the stock power system and install the SX power system and make it still usable than leave it dead or put another untrustworthy gas ram.

-Arvind S.

Replacement Nitro-pistons are available if one goes phutt - at least I think it must be a Precihole spare
http://www.kovibazaar.com/Springs/Nitro ... 03289.html