Indians For Guns

Dear All;

Although most of the veterean and Eminent Air Rifle Shooters and experts are right here in our very own Mumbai we hardly get to interact and meet given everyones tied up with their personal and professional lifes, so here goes.
This is an old air rifle belonging to my neighbor. This is a very old RWS Diana 25 Model in 0.25 Calibre. While I understand squat about air rifles, from a laymans perspective and visual inspection I gathered.

1) The blueing on the barrel and the body which houses the spring ( ?) ihas been badly worn off. There was some surface rust which has been removed but has left marks on the body and the barrel. Nothing that a bit of spit and shine with a fine grit emery paper cannot tackle. Bluing needs to be redone.
2) The front and the rear sight is totally useless. Dang the front site is missing and has a jugaad twisted wire in place. Will this be available off the internet and can be purchased and installed ?
3) There is a fine crack in the wooden stock, I think a resin filler should be able to tackle this, and ofcourse repolishing.
4) The rifling/bore bore seems to be in perfect shape, the gun was kept coated in oild in plastic covering. My damn lense just would’nt focus correctly inside !
5) I fired a few shots , .22 actually which was available in the local sports shop and could hit the dish antennas 3 blocks away( was pleasantly surprised), and these were .22’s not .25’s which would have been a correct fit. The spring, piston etc still has a lot of juice left in them.
6) The chisel shaped detent( not sure if it is the right word) locks perfectly in place, there is no play where the barrel locks and the fit in snug, no barrel droop of any kind.

Now my question to all is
1) What is the valuation of the Air Rifle in this very condition if my neighbor intends to sell it as it is .
2) What will be the approximate cost to restore the AR to its former glory.

3) What will the AR fetch once money is spent on its restoration.


Thank You in Advance

Regards
Moin.

These are the pics. The AR is lying with me, so if you need me to take pics of anything specific and post and let me know



Thanks
Moin.

Dear Moin,

This post is an eyeopener. When we had a talk on Saturday night you never said that you wanted to keep the rifle for yourself Congrats.
The restoration will take time, some money and a lot of patience and can be easily done by an expert. I am sure you know quite a few of them in Mumbai.

And how much it will fetch after the restoration is done can only be decided by the person who goes for it.
Except for the fact that the caliber is .25, for which the pellets are pretty expensive and rare, I don't see much of collector's value in a Diana that has been thoroughly restored.

Cheers

TC

PS: I will get be receiving new replacements from US and Germany in two weeks. So will ship back both your blades soon

TC wrote:Dear Moin,

This post is an eyeopener. When we had a talk on Saturday night you never said that you wanted to keep the rifle for yourself Congrats.
The restoration will take time, some money and a lot of patience and can be easily done by an expert. I am sure you know quite a few of them in Mumbai.

And how much it will fetch after the restoration is done can only be decided by the person who goes for it.
Except for the fact that the caliber is .25, for which the pellets are pretty expensive and rare, I don't see much of collector's value in a Diana that has been thoroughly restored.

Cheers

TC

PS: I will get be receiving new replacements from US and Germany in two weeks. So will ship back both your blades soon

No Dada, no interest in air rifles what so ever. Just want to collate information about its possible restoration and valuation for my neighbor and good friend. ..


Regards
Moin

Hi Moin,
> From what you have described & seeing the pics it appears that this 'Vintage AR' could be restored...
> However it needs the attention of a good & dedicated 'gunsmith' ...
> It appears that the front & rear sights need to be replaced, the stock sanded & polished...
> As far as the internals (Spring, Washer / Seal) are concerned, only opening it out can reveal their condition...
> Was amazed that you could hit a target quite far away with a 0.22 pellet although the AR is calibered for 0.25...
> Now this is a moot point - as to whether 0.25 pellets are freely available in the market...
> IMHO - only a true lover of ARs will go in for a re-furbished one - especially when international quality ARs are now available!
> Finally the cost for putting the AR back in shape can be guesstimated only after its physical inspection!!!
Briha

Hey Moin,

I would like to have first dibs on this condition (Not refurbished) if your neighbor decide to let it go. As far as valuation goes, no clue.

-Inder

brihacharan wrote:Hi Moin,
> From what you have described & seeing the pics it appears that this 'Vintage AR' could be restored...
> However it needs the attention of a good & dedicated 'gunsmith' ...
> It appears that the front & rear sights need to be replaced, the stock sanded & polished...
> As far as the internals (Spring, Washer / Seal) are concerned, only opening it out can reveal their condition...
> Was amazed that you could hit a target quite far away with a 0.22 pellet although the AR is calibered for 0.25...
> Now this is a moot point - as to whether 0.25 pellets are freely available in the market...
> IMHO - only a true lover of ARs will go in for a re-furbished one - especially when international quality ARs are now available!
> Finally the cost for putting the AR back in shape can be guesstimated only after its physical inspection!!!
Briha

Noted with thanks Sir. Will carry it one of these days for your to inspect and perhaps the Good Doc can have a quick Looksie.

Regards
Moin.

kanwar76 wrote:Hey Moin,

I would like to have first dibs on this condition (Not refurbished) if your neighbor decide to let it go. As far as valuation goes, no clue.

-Inder

Thanks Inder. Noted will get in touch if he gentleman decides to let go.

Regards
Moin

Moin

it is difficult to place a price tag on a vintage gun once an attempt at restoration is made . the more replacement one does the more the price drops. that's a pity as that could be a very old piece.

an attempt to date the gun though would be interesting... ..given the pictures you have posted. notably ;
the front sight
the rear sight
the trigger.
the barrel detent

that type of front sight could only mean a very early model...it does not have the groove running along the barrel to fit in the standard globe type of sight. rather it has a groove across the barrel to fit in a the very early type/ basic front sights.

the rear sight is also from the early model 25 type sight.

the trigger and trigger housing are very basic ( pretty similar to the 1hp )

the barrel detent is the chisel type and not the ball type....again signs ( not an absolute ) of a pretty early type model.

the model 25 has a few variants ( A . B , C etc..) and they were produced before WW 2 and again after the war. one way one can get an idea is to see if it has a " made in Germany".....pre war... or made in W Germany...post war stamp on the tube or if there is a date stamped on the tube.

i would think ...no expert here....it could be the Diana model 27 D......going by the chisel detent and basic trigger. it can not be an RWS Diana. well , unless it has the RWS stamped on it ; which i doubt very much.

spares can be tried at Chambers...but that front sight is an enigma !!

https://www.gunspares.co.uk/showcatimage.asp?id=24372

Wow. Thank you so much Mercury. My neighbour reckons this one was given to him in the year 92 , 93 by someon who had used it for a year or so. So its definately not a vintage AR. Model 25 is stamped on the body but googling showsbthese were made in .177 and .22s and not .25's.
will look up the link..

Regards
Moin.

Moin. wrote:Wow. Thank you so much Mercury. My neighbour reckons this one was given to him in the year 92 , 93 by someon who had used it for a year or so. So its definately not a vintage AR. Model 25 is stamped on the body but googling showsbthese were made in .177 and .22s and not .25's.
will look up the link..

Regards
Moin.

I can't tell you exactly why - but it looks older than that. Maybe its the lack of cheekrest, the ancient looking rear sight mount etc - but it does look like something from the 1960s. Have you tried mesuring the bore - perhaps by placing a pellet? As far as I know - I have never found 0.25 pellets in India and I have been buying pellets from as far back as the 1980s - so how was the rifle used - unless the man had a supply from abroad?

mercury wrote: spares can be tried at Chambers...but that front sight is an enigma !!

To me that front sight looks like a "hack" and I suddenly got an idea to copy it. The original sight must have broken off and someone has twisted some GI wire around the muzzle and left a bit sticking out - at least that's what it looks like to me on the photo.

bennedose wrote:

mercury wrote: spares can be tried at Chambers...but that front sight is an enigma !!

To me that front sight looks like a "hack" and I suddenly got an idea to copy it. The original sight must have broken off and someone has twisted some GI wire around the muzzle and left a bit sticking out - at least that's what it looks like to me on the photo.

> In all probability the "Enigmatic" front sight is what was once called as a "Butterfly" front sight...It used to be shaped like a 'tent' which was slid on a set of parallel grooves at the tip of the barrel....
> I vaguely remember shooting this model of Diana during my school days (it was a 0.22cal) which belonged to a classmate of mine...

Briha

Moin

the model 25 as mentioned earlier was manufactured before the war between 1926 and 1940 and again after the war between December 1950 and September 1986. now all we need to do is place when your friends gun was manufactured.

the attached link....of the 25 model made between 1926 and 1940... is only to highlight the similar front sight and rear sight; but the article goes on to mention smooth bore !!
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2013/01/ ... un-part-1/

now , i know for certain that the model 25 was made in .25 caliber. also your friends rifle has a rifled bore. rifles made after the war ( including the M25) had better front and rear sights, better triggers and Diana had moved on to the ball detent.. SO....

i would think your friends rifle was in all probability a transition model....larger rifled bore being the only progression.

the interesting thing is that BSA started using .25 rifled bores as early as 1906 in their air rifles !! did Diana try them in an early model 25 ???? OR did Diana try them after the war ( between 1950 and 1986 ) ??? but then why on the pre war design ?? if the rifled bore was used on a pre war design , then it could only have been done on the very early productions. ( a bit Sherlock Holmesy , but bear with me )

your friend could be holding on to a 1950 era model 25. COULD BE !! that does fall into the vintage bracket. but the condition........well , not really what a collector would be looking at !!