Indians For Guns

First I want to post some disclaimers
1. Please don't laugh at my silly looking home made target sheets. I generate a lot of waste paper that goes for reycling and here I have drawn a circle using an old CD as template. I shoot holes in the "targets" before giving away "raddi paper"
2. I am shooting non standard distances varying from 5 m to 20 m and given my shooting skills the score markings on standard target sheets are no use and depress me

Clearly the results of my shooting are a consequence of two factors (wind was negligible, time of day and temperature the same for all)
1. My own skill
2. The accuracy of my weapon

I will post 2 pictures and pass some comments

The picture below is shooting standing up using an SDB 50 rifle, 0.22 at 16 meters using Diana shot pellets. Aiming for the 6 o clock point on the large circle. 10 shots. The total spread is about 12 cm (0.75% of range). The next pic below for comparison is using a smooth bore 0.177 Umarex air pistol at 6 meters. The choice of 6 meters was because I had a convenient eye level hand rest so I could steady the pistol, take my time and shoot. This time I aimed for 6 o clock on the center dot. Only 6 out of ten hit the target sheet despite keeping my hand steady and supported at a comfortable level. Assuming a spread of about 15 cm diameter - it works out to 2.5% of 6 meters - a much worse performance than the SDB rifle. Conclusions
1. I am not the world's best shot
2. I am not using the world's best guns

Having said that the performance of the SDB in my view is not bad.

hi Bennedose
Though I am not an expert marksman who is going to give you expertise advice, trying simple tricks which will not demoralize you with your effort. Expecting you are doing the artillery hold and breathing correctly why dont you use bench rest or knee rest position which will definetly give you better grouping as the weight & stability issue is neglible in those positions. Mastering standing position is difficult to attain (without stand) as the weight of the rifle will itself give you lot of trouble stabilizing at the target & as we know the hard trigger pull is very difficult to negate.
Once you gain confidence in bench rest or knee rest position you can always get back to standing position. Well thats my point of view & the eminent members of this forum can obviously show you the door for better accuracy.
Happy shooting
Regards Moulindu

I will certainly take your suggestion moulindu. As I see it the inaccuracy (or spread) of my shooting results can be analysed as follows
1. x amount of spread because my shooting is inaccurate
2. y amount of spread because the weapon is inconsistent

So the total spread is x+y

If my aim becomes perfect, then the inaccuracy will be the weapon's deficiency alone. Or if I use a perfect weapon, the inaccuracy will be my aim alone. At this point in time I am still trying to figure out how much of each contributes to my plinker-quality shooting. I am guessing I will have a better idea in a few weeks when I am hoping to add a Precihole Orion to my collection.

Of course I have left out from the reckoning the effect of variable quality pellets.

[quote="bennedose"]
As I see it the inaccuracy (or spread) of my shooting results can be analysed as follows
1. x amount of spread because my shooting is inaccurate
2. y amount of spread because the weapon is inconsistent

> As an initial / basic diagnosis the above is step 1
> Between 1 & 2 - The 2 is more easily rectified....
a) Tune the weapon to minimize vibration etc etc.
> But one important factor apparently overlooked is "Have U checked the weapon's "Sight Alignment" for windage & elevation???????
> If this is not done your grouping will go 'Haywire'
b) So what U do is to get your weapon in shape _ Then choose a good Brand of Wad Cutters(pellets) - I would recommend Mastershot Export Quality 14gr.
c) Use a good bench rest - Bean Bag / Sandbag etc.
d) Set your target at 25ft
e) Hold the weapon steady "Do not grip it tightly" - Just a Gentle Hold to allow the weapon to shoot by itself - Your hold is only to ensure 'Guidance'
f) Shoot a few pellets to see the deviations - Up / Down / Left / Right
g) Adjust the Rear Sight for windage / elevation till you get a 50paise grouping
> Now that accomplished - All that's to be done is to shoot standing, sitting or whatever position you desire to find out how to improve your shooting skills.
> Now that's a different ball game alltogether

Briha

Brilliant. Thanks. Will work on this. Unfortunately I have just bought myself a cartload of pellets of various types for testing - but I did manage to get mastershot Export quality today. Not wad cutters though.

Hi Brihaji
Totally agree to what u have said bt plz correct me if m wrong

"Have U checked the weapon's "Sight Alignment" for windage & elevation???????
> If this is not done your grouping will go 'Haywire'

misalignment of windage & elevation will not result in spread. Yes it will hit point (B) when the desired target will be point(A). And if someone is consistently trying to hit A he will definetly make close grouping at B. i guess thats what happens to us when start to zero our scope.
Regards Moulindu

moulindu wrote:Hi Brihaji
Totally agree to what u have said bt plz correct me if m wrong

"Have U checked the weapon's "Sight Alignment" for Windage & elevation???????
> If this is not done your grouping will go 'Haywire'

Misalignment of Windage & Elevation will not result in spread. Yes it will hit point (B) when the desired target will be point(A). And if someone is consistently trying to hit A he will definitely make close grouping at B. i guess that's what happens to us when start to zero our scope.
Regards Moulindu

Hi Moulindu,
> The above observation virtually defeats the ultimate objective - although logically it appears right
> So what's the point in having a Target at a specific location?
> Your point that's what happens to us when we start to zero our scope is correct
> Other issues like:
1. Barrel Droop
2. Misalignment of the barrel with the receiver
3. Bend in the barrel either left or right
4. Warping of the wooden stock
> Can also contribute to pellets going haywire
> One ought to be lucky to have an Air Rifle that's near perfect in every way.
Briha

moulindu wrote:Hi Brihaji
Totally agree to what u have said bt plz correct me if m wrong

misalignment of windage & elevation will not result in spread. Yes it will hit point (B) when the desired target will be point(A). And if someone is consistently trying to hit A he will definetly make close grouping at B. i guess thats what happens to us when start to zero our scope.
Regards Moulindu

Actually you are not wrong, moulindu.

As Briha suggests, it does defeat the ultimate objective but.......
If your sights are off, you can still shoot small groups. Small groups depend on the mechanical accuracy of the gun (and ammunition) and the the ability of the shooter, among other things.
If your sights are off, you can always adjust them.
In fact, many times when we shoot target games we will purposely adjust the sights (a couple of clicks or so) off to one side, so as not to obliterate the aiming point.
If your rifle can shoot small groups, you can always adjust the sights to bring them back to point of aim anytime you want.

Brihacharan is refering to windage and elevation w.r.t. sight alignment. In other words, what he is saying is that the sight alignment should be correct and consistent at all times.

Hi Brihaji/ xl_target/ Mack The Knife
The only objective of firing a bullet/ pellet or an arrow or even stone or any other projectile is to hit the desired target and i dont have any second thoughts on that. U should shoot what u see . But my curiosity regarding Bennedose's grouping is that, is it anyway related to the his rifle's sight (windage/elevation)misalignment?
Regards Moulindu

As Briha sir told

Use a good bench rest - Bean Bag / Sandbag etc.
Hold the weapon steady "Do not grip it tightly" - Just a Gentle Hold to allow the weapon to shoot by itself - Your hold is only to ensure 'Guidance'

Just one more thing I want to add hold the gun same way as before for every shot

Mack The Knife wrote:Brihacharan is refering to windage and elevation w.r.t. sight alignment. In other words, what he is saying is that the sight alignment should be correct and consistent at all times.

Sure I understood what Briha was saying.
I was just trying to point out that there might be specific situations where one might not want POI=POA.

moulindu wrote:But my curiosity regarding Bennedose's grouping is that, is it anyway related to the his rifle's sight (windage/elevation)misalignment?
Regards Moulindu

Yes definitely misalignment . But there was no wind (area enclosed/sheltered). But still, If I am able to aim at the same spot, then every pellet should still group at the misaligned spot. Misalignment ensures that you don't damage the point you are aiming at on the target.

I tend to hold the rifle pointed low low, correct for right/left by ensuring that the pillar of light on either side of foresight is equal. I then raise gently, ensure (as far as my eye/body allows) that the "V" and foresight are vertically aligned. I tend to hold my breath (after exhaling) for a very short time before I squeeze. But despite all this dramabaazi I can clearly see that my sight is actually moving quite a bit. It is not all that steady. That is my problem and I have to somehow squeeze off a shot when the continuously moving sight holds the correct spot for a moment

Image shows results of 5 shots each from 6 different types of pellet

Hi Bennedose
It seems that with Diana shot u are getting a nice grouping other than 2 fliers. why dont u repeat the same exercise in a bench rest position as Brihaji suggested. this will negate the problem of moving barrel while aiming & squeezing the trigger
Regards Moulindu