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The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:18 am
by lazybones
The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

It's not everyday that a new airgun appears. It's a great time to be alive and healthy when it does.

Those of us who have been around for awhile, and have had a heap of these sticks pass through our hands, have a "sense" of something that those starting out will learn along the way.

In this slick age of advertising and marketing we expect anything made of wood and metal to be a work of absolute perfection when we open the box, much like a fine piece of jewelery. Hole-in-hole blah, blah, blah.

Some of us old timers know better. Anything made by man has its quirks. Given time some of these quirks become objects of great affection. Read xl target's awesome post called the Gift. He says it better than I ever will be able to.

Last week a friend was gifted a very old (circa 1930's) Stevens double barrel shotgun by his Dad. Any badly made desi shotgun in any gun shop would have looked like a million bucks compared to what this Stevens looked like. Many would have walked away, looking for a tetanus shot, and would have missed something phenomenal.

The oil, the rags, the mops, brushes, rods, the rubbing down of every square inch. The satisfaction when elbow grease is applied and rust and blemishes start to go away. The endless cups of coffee, the war stories about when, where and how the Stevens did what and to whom. The discovery of a lateral movement in the stock. The hypothetico- deductive method of a Sherlock Holmes used to determine that a striker was broken. All this and more.

The home visit by the ancient gunsmith. The scavenging of a litre of petrol and then the inevitable dismantling and incessant scrubbing. The arrival of a new set of strikers - two days later - perfectly machined using the one surviving striker as a template.
Then reassembly - Balistol and Vaseline (the ancient one showing his contempt for moly and other newfangled greases). And then a sense of satisfaction that beggars description.

And why am I boring you with all this ?
Because a couple of days back I got my hands on a new Precihole Pegasus in .177 and I'm going to tell you about it somewhere below.

I'm going to be casting a hyper critical eye over this pipe and want to set a tone. In no way am I going to be pulling my punches, but at the same time I'd like a sense of the fun I'm having in spotting glitches and figuring out solutions to be hovering over this post.
Not to do so would be downright misleading and missing out on the whole point of this magnificent obsession we all share.
I've been reading all the posts on the Precihole posted in IFG and am slightly pained by the hard stance taken by many newbies. I'm advocating another way all together.

What follows will all sound negative, but try to suspend judgement for awhile. I'm leaving out all the good stuff I like about the Pegasus - which is considerable.


Let's start with the Front Sight.

There is a grub screw holding down the front sight. This presses directly on the barrel. I found that mine had scratched into the barrel and had exposed metal.
The solution was of course to wipe down the barrel with Balistol and put a couple of threads from the cleaning cloth down the screw hole before re tightening the screw.
I had the "Oh No" feeling when re fixing the front sight - thinking I'd need a spirit level and a target sheet to realign the vertical. I was wrong. The barrel has a scooped out bit at the end that fits exactly into a protrusion on the inside of the front sight. Perfect centering very time. Whew !

Read and Heed - the screw is an M2 Allen - do not over tighten this as it's threaded into the poly carbonate sight assembly. Do not try to pry the front sight unit off the barrel. It is sweated on tight. If you must remove it do so by pushing from the bottom with both thumbs. Do not rotate it because it's fitted into the cleft I mentioned earlier.

The Rear Sight.

The Pegasus is a kicker. It's 12 foot pound spring piston remember ?
Now by that very definition its going to rattle everything loose. Don't seek exemption from the laws of Physics.
The rear sight is held laterally by a chrome plated hinge pin. The sight itself screws vertically into the top of the breech block with two Allen M2 screws.
20 shots and things start to get loose. The chrome pin starts to drift out left to right (seen from above). The two Allen screws start to loosen up and the rear sight starts to rattle. The groups start to open up.
The solution is easy enough. A little thread locker in the screws and a fingernail to push the chrome pin back in.

Read and Heed - Thread locker is not for first time brain stormers. Watch someone using it before using it yourself. Use the Locktite Purple 222 specially made for screws less than 6 mm/ or Anabond Blue. At present I don't recommend you do any of these things.
Put a drop of the thread locker onto a piece of glazed paper and use a pin (the point, not the head) to apply only that much to around 2-3 threads on the center of the screw. Any more and you'll need a grinding wheel and much praying.
Do not put the pin into the bottle as you will polarize the rest of the solution and ruin it for later (acrylates polarize on contact with metal - that's how they work)

I'm told these bugs have been ironed out in the newer serial numbers. So don't go running for the gum bottle.

Much fun was had wandering through the gullies of the hardware market (SP Road in our neck of the woods), with a posse of shooting buddies, looking for Allen keys, thread lockers and O Rings.

Note: the Stock screws with their star washers have not moved.

The 11 mm Scope Grove.

There's a big difference between a Scope Rail and Scope Grooves.
A rail is mounted on top of the receiver and has fairly deep grooves cut into it. The Pegasus has grooves cut into the sides of the receiver itself. An entirely different proposition.

I spent three days trying to mount a 4 x 32 metal body Gamo scope on the Pegasus.

I begged, borrowed and stole Leapers (2 piece Medium) mounts, Air Force (2 piece High) mounts, an unknown (2 piece High) mount, a Leapers (one piece offset, 3 screw) mount, and finally a Hawke one piece 4 screw Medium mount.

Day 1 and a sweat soaked T shirt later, I PM'd Pratik Mahale on IFG to find out how he's scoped his Pegasus. He very kindly answered immediately and said he'd used used Araldite (an epoxy resin) and a one piece 4 screw mount.

Day 2 I decided against the Araldite and went back to the Hawke one piece, 4 screw, Medium mount. It took me about 20 minutes to torque in the 4 side screws. A miniscule amount of extra torque on one screw would pop the other screws off the mount. My sweaty T Shirt collection was now up to two T Shirts.

Day 3. Finally got the Hawke mount to sit on the grooves firmly. This time I scrubbed the grooves, the mount screws, and the claws on the mount with Surgical Spirit to degrease them before installation.
Then I decided to be brilliant and wrapped two pieces of masking tape loosely around the scope and receiver - just in case.

10 shots later the scope and mount fell off - the scope was saved by my brilliant use of masking tape - No Applause Please !
Sweaty T Shirts now number 3.

I got onto chat with Pyramidair (after changing my T Shirt) and was told they don't have any mounts in their inventory that wrap around a semicircular receiver and fit into the grooves therein.
So for those of you planning on harassing friends and relatives to bring you mounts from abroad, hold off for a while.

No solutions to this one yet, but stay tuned to this channel, some very smart friends of mine are working on a solution and I'll let you know when something is figured out.

Accuracy.

The Pegasus is not the Precihole Club. Along with 12 foot pounds you get more cocking effort, more felt recoil and a heavier trigger. It's called the Laws of Physics remember ? After ten shots at 10 meters it will go through a 450 page phone book (using GSmith High Impact round heads). Use a sturdy backstop. I'm glad I did.

Being a heavy hitting springer I estimate the Pegasus will take somewhere between 400-500 shots to settle in, accuracy wise.

My first groups were around an inch by an inch at 10 meters with GSmith round heads. At the lowest elevation setting for the rear sights the group was around 3 inches high.

After the first 50 shots this had settled into a group about a half inch by half inch at the same distance with the same pellets. It was around 2 inches high at this time. I'm expecting the groups to shrink further with use - remember all that old timer stuff I bored you with earlier ?

So, for those looking for a "Buy"/"Don't Buy" recommendation; Sorry you've wasted your time reading this.
For those wanting to buy jewellery and perfection; Sorry again.
For those of us obsessed with this whole business of pipes, wood, plastic and flying objects and Thunk sounds, I hope I've brought back some memories and the sense of fun we all have in doing what we do.
For Newbies and stick-in-the-mud veterans; there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the Precihole Pegasus. It's right on the money and capable of giving years of pleasurable shooting. That's unless you've gone over to the dark side and got yourself one of them girly compressed air sticks with a zero weight trigger and zero recoil and zero whatever else the Devil gives children now a days :mrgreen:


In my neck of the woods we give respect to those who can do what we can't do, but want to - Olympic sportsmen, Astronauts and the like. So my salutations to Precihole and the Good Doctor for creating the Pegasus that's giving me such fun. But like Tendulkar's batting, the Good Doctor will get bouquets and Brickbats in equal measure. I hope he's enjoying himself too :mrgreen: I write this with the utmost respect for him and his creations.


Whew ! This has been a long post. I've written this in the hope that the Precihole/Anti Precihole blood feuds will now officially end and much fun will be had by all.


Ashok

P.S. I must put on record that some of my friends tell me that Precihole is well seized of all the issues in this post and have already fixed most of them.
What a pity depriving late buyers of so much fun :mrgreen:

Contact them if you have any issues with your pipe. They seem a decent enough bunch.
Many thanks to Shankar for all his support, wisdom and endless conversations on the phone discussing - well, what else ? :mrgreen:

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:46 am
by SriramK
Thank you Ashok Sir, good to see level headed take on things :) I'm a couple of weeks away from my review on the Pegasus.

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:53 am
by xl_target
Ashok,

An excellent and articulate write up.
It was pleasure to read.
Thank You.

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:45 am
by mercury
wow Lazybones...you must have put in a lot of work to sweat out 3 t shirts in the lovely weather we now have in b'lore.....but i get the drift. you have brought back wonderful memories....esp sp road. i have wandered the lanes and bylanes for the last 30 yrs or so looking for those elusive screws for the early dianas ans bsa's. in fact i was there yesterday looking for stock screws for an old bsa. anything from British metric to Chinese hoo haa is there !!

thanks for the write up and a special thank you for not mentioning or comparing it to another airgun.

every gun one buys either over the counter or in this age of internet purchase has a very high % of being infected by a bug ! one of the biggest kicks of this hobby is to figure out the bugs and set them right.

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:49 am
by Mack The Knife
Ashok,

Whilst you may be having fun playing 'spot the glitch', the average Chungu-Mungu that buys such an air-rifle, with great expectations, may be perplexed, angry and disappointed at what he has received.

I will also add that neither you nor Wolf (the one with the Stevens shotgun) would have been happy repairing your respective acquisitions had you not had the support of those who know a little gun-smithing. So try not to make light of it.

I finally got off my butt and had a Club (Sr. No. 5) sent over to test and was very disappointed to see the lack of fit and finish. More so as I hold Doc in very high regard both as a human being and engineer. There are also some design flaws which I can discuss with Doc should he be interested. I have already mentioned these to Shankar. Having said that, the rifle was not inaccurate and it definitely has potential.

I was told that the first batch was rushed to meet the launch date and that the next batch of rifles will have far better fit and finish. Let's hope so, as I have ordered two Pegasus' as Christmas presents for my boys but these, I am afraid, will purely be stop gap measures until I get them Weihrauchs in the coming year. With a little attention to detail, there is no reason why Precihole cannot put out an air-rifle that is as good, if not better, than a Weihrauch or Air Arms. Let's see what the future hold for the Indian airgunner.

BTW, trigger pressure does not have to increase with an increase in muzzle energy. Good engineering will turn your law of Physics on its head.

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:02 pm
by mulki
Nice review. Enjoyed reading it.

Have you considered mounting a Picatinny Rail onto the receiver to solve you scope mounting issues? Something like this:
http://www.web-armory.com/images/MNT_MB500T_PRO_1.jpg

This would need drilling and tapping the receiver of course, so not a simple bolt on job. But would enable you to use Picatinny Scope rings for a solid mounting. I was considering doing something like this after I buy the Precihole.

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:35 pm
by Sujay
Mack The Knife wrote:Ashok,

Whilst you may be having fun playing 'spot the glitch', the average Chungu-Mungu that buys such an air-rifle, with great expectations, may be perplexed, angry and disappointed at what he has received.

I will also add that neither you nor Wolf (the one with the Stevens shotgun) would have been happy repairing your respective acquisitions had you not had the support of those who know a little gun-smithing. So try not to make light of it.

I finally got off my butt and had a Club (Sr. No. 5) sent over to test and was very disappointed to see the lack of fit and finish. More so as I hold Doc in very high regard both as a human being and engineer. There are also some design flaws which I can discuss with Doc should he be interested. I have already mentioned these to Shankar. Having said that, the rifle was not inaccurate and it definitely has potential.
That's it !

Thanks for putting an end to the suspense ( at least for me).

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:34 pm
by u_vaste
Thank you ashok , this is an excellent write up.
Uv

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:41 pm
by TC
Ashok, I am not sure when, if at all, I will buy a Precihole rifle but I will certainly read your post once again and save a printout for keeps...

Its wonderful...

Thanks

TC

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:27 pm
by Mack The Knife
Sujay wrote:very disappointed to see the lack of fit and finish. More so as I hold Doc in very high regard both as a human being and engineer.[/b] There are also some design flaws which I can discuss with Doc should he be interested. I have already mentioned these to Shankar. Having said that, the rifle was not inaccurate and it definitely has potential.
That's it !
Thanks for putting an end to the suspense ( at least for me).
Sujay, don't write it off yet. They are supposed to have rectified the shortcomings in the latter rifles. I will post my opinion after my children get theirs. Also, there is nothing about the iffy air-rifles from the first batch that cannot be rectified if one knows what to do.

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:28 pm
by Peace Lover
Excellent post. Thanks for the information Ashok.

I was particularly interested in mounting of a scope part since I recently purchased an entry level 3-7x20 scope. So, per my understanding, we cannot mount a scope on a Precihole's rail grooves without modification?

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:36 pm
by airgun_novice
I must have shot like 100 pellets out of my Pegasus. The very first shots were taken in a local competition (OS-AR) and the very first record shot went for that perfect (10.9) dead center. Wish I could request that card from the organisers. I know it was mighty stupid oof me to take an out-of-box AR to the competition, but I wasn't taking the event that seriously and wanted to shoot the day old Pegasus and drive off from there to Pune for some work. Managed to keep most shots on the AR card and in the black, but for four which caught me by surprise.

Anyway, shooting from the Pegasus is like holding on leashed guard dogs that scent a foreign smell in the dead of night. :-) Absolute delight. As with power and The Laws of Physics (like this one, lazybones :cheers: ) at work in tandem, the following has been observed in *my* Pegasus piece:

1. The first pull actually has TWO first pulls and then the second pull that breaks the shot. Nothing major - probably a miniscule misalignment of trigger assembly or a burr but once having got used to those two first pulls,
2. Expected them all along. 4 times they missed, i.e. had one first pull and then the shot broke. These 4 caught me by surprise resulting in 'bad shots'. Have informed the Concerned and have been promised a look at the trigger whenever I take it across. Now staying close to the PH company area has some advantages. :-)
3. The hard pin of the rear sight did start moving from left to right now after those 100 or so shots and few oilings. Simply pushed it back with my finger nail. But now thanks to the Gurus, shall apply a bit of (Indian) red threadlocker that I have before pushing it in. Why on the earth did it not strike me yesterday ???!!! :-)
4. The trigger mount also loosened and trigger actually swung to one side like that of a competition level AP ! :-) But tightened with the allen key - no issue with that. I have an Allen key set handy anyway, being an FWB AP user. Good idea for evey AP/ AR owner to keep a set in the house - costs under Rs. 150.

Now the question cropping up here is that should I apply threadlocker on to the Allen nuts or leave it since 1. The trigger will have to be removed for the peek inside and 2. I plan to change the trigger eventually to the one less shiny. Read on the internet about 'Loctite' "Red" being PERMANENT in nature and destroying the threads while trying to remove. So think shall leave it till trigger assembly is looked at.

Now, at home last night, my daughter and I had a 'match' between Pegasus and the N25. Both of us shot from both the ARs. Distance around 22 ft with the AP target in the metal pellet trap box kept on a stool in one end of the corridor. The Pegasus not just grouped better but the sheer sound of impact was awesome - more brutal and masculine while that of the other was almost nasal & feminine. Mynd ittt - the N25's been repaired and tuned and has also been used in a local competition last year and fetched me a medal at that. ;-) (So no, unlike the kings of our folk-lore, I am not going to throw/ sell away that older N25 in favor of the younger, err, newer, Pegasus that has catching hold of my active interest and imagination. :-) ) The pellet impact (used flatheads Mastershot Green Box) from Pegasus would turn that pellet trap box a considerable bit every shot inspite of the clean holes it made in the (AP) target and the fine flat it ended up as. For 10m/ competition situation, I think the Club ought to perform up to the expectations due to its optimum speed/ power and accuracy akin to that of Pegasus.

Yet both of us agreed that the Pegasus was awesome and "different". My 11 year old daughter (who's tall & stout and built up like a 15-year old) did not notice any perceptible weight difference between the two, but I felt the PH is better balanced and hefted. Much to the chagrin of my 8 year old son who still has a problem holding up any of those ARs, daughter's announced that we should shoot every Fri-Sun nights at home. :-) So he's agreed to be the in-house referee. More to come as more to shoot and more to experience...

As an aside, I gave my hardly-ever-used Daisy 4X20 scope to a fellow IFGian for his Orion, but he missed fitting on it by about 0.5mm. Will try it on my Pegasus for trial sake, though I prefer OS. Something to do with either extra coating on the dovetail that nibbled up on those micrometers or the fact that my scope is still "new" and the base needs to 'spread' after about a decade and half of ownership. Gotta go - wife signals & beckons... for supper. :cheers:

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:22 pm
by essdee1972
As an aside, I gave my hardly-ever-used Daisy 4X20 scope to a fellow IFGian for his Orion, but he missed fitting on it by about 0.5mm.
The aforementioned IFG'ian is yours truly. The Daisy scope was 0.3 mm too small for the Orion (measured by a Vernier Calliper borrowed from my QA colleague), so I went for an el cheapo Chinese scope (there was a discussion on this scope in the airgun section a few days back, mine's the same), as I didn't want to spend greenbacks on an expensive scope without knowing how the Orion takes it.

I faced the same issue with scoping the Orion as Lazybones did with his Pegasus. I used "ranger bands" (fancy term for thick rubber bands cut from an old bicycle tube) and FeviKwik. While the ranger bands were on, the scope held (for about 100 odd shots). As soon as the ranger bands were removed, the rifle asserted its fundamental rights to open sights rather violently!! :shock: Fortunately, neither the scope nor my eyeglasses suffered. Unfortunately, in my attempts to remove the remaining FeviKwik, I inadvertently removed some of the bluing :cry: :stupid: So now, another spend for Ballistol!

Hope the gurus working on scope attachment to the Pegasus / Orion share their experiences.
With a little attention to detail, there is no reason why Precihole cannot put out an air-rifle that is as good, if not better, than a Weihrauch or Air Arms. Let's see what the future hold for the Indian airgunner.
I'll be in line outside Precihole factory when that happens! Like Airgun_Novice, I too am privileged to be relatively close to the factory, albeit too lazy to make the effort!

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:44 pm
by Sujay
Mack The Knife,

I concede that any new product may/may not be perfect and world class at first launch. That it may take time to improve upon where user feedback plays a very important part.

In this case it will happen only if Doctor Shirsat is not carried away by the hallucinations being posted in the name of review/experience by certain clowns about the PH ARs.

Quality control is cited as “fool-Proof” then defectives are brushed aside as merely “bad pieces”. So many defectives are not supposed to come out if a “near perfect barrel is rejected by Doc” , “doc himself at work, quality control assured” etc. etc. What is happening in reality? Deliberately releasing products in market bypassing the QA procedures to meet launch dates. ! Why ? To give Indians a world class product ! Unique method of giving world class product.

Another surprise has been the post by a senior shooter which is confined to Fit and its praise.

Anyway, knowing you, I bet that you are biting your tongue and had it not been The Doc behind this project, you would have been forthcoming a little more. I too have always heard nice things about Doc and hope that he will be able to pull out himself as well as the project out of the rut of hype/deadlines/launch date and other gimmicks.

Re: The Precihole Pegasus - Musings

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:41 pm
by Mack The Knife
Sujay,

I haven't read most of the posts on this subject. However, it is quite possible that some members have received air-rifles sans niggles or it is equally possible that some members have no clue what good fit and finish is and hence remain satisfied with their purchase.

To launch a rifle with niggles was a wrong decision. Should these niggles continue, then the average Indian punter will just have to learn some basic gunsmithing to set things right or he will vote with his wallet.

Whilst I have great admiration for Doc, I haven't been in touch with him for years. Not even to leap-frog the queue. Contrary to what you think, I am not biting my tongue and have no intention of doing so. If you want me to list out all the pros and cons, I will be happy to do so after my boys receive theirs so that there is no question of my criticism being based on a one off. I think that is only fair.