Indians For Guns

Is it worth doing it for improving accuracy ?
What is used for lubing pellets for use in spring power-plant to prevent dieseling ?
Is anyone doing it here ?

M.

Some AP manufacturers advise not to put any oil/grease inside the barrel, like mine which is a Hämmerli AP40. Steyr advises to lightly oil the inside of the barrels of their APs only for long time preservation when it is out of use for a long period. But they should be throughly cleaned with felt pellets before using again.
So, is it really needed??.

I remember having seen a great AP shooter breaking the myth of pellet quality/accuracy here. He took a pellet, deformed it by pressing between the thumb and index and shot the same on a comp target; 10. He repeated the same; another 10. The third was a good 9. Then he asked us to judge by ourselves.
For me, personally, I use only medium quality pellets. RWS Club which costs me 4 Euros (270 Rupees) for a tin of 500 pellets. I have hardly used any RWS Match or H&N match grade pellets because I could not honour their reputation.

best regards

tirpassion,

You seem to have read my thoughts. The decision is definitely related to price of pellets. I use H&N Sport (Rs 400/-) as a norm as we do not get other makes of economical pellets. Like you I do not think I need to use Finale Match (Rs 750/-), except when playing a match that matters especially when my own shooting has some miles to go.

There are slightly economical Indian alternatives available which I thought could be improved on accuracy by Washing and Lubing.

Would love to hear from others on what they do........

M.

tirpassion wrote:Some AP manufacturers advise not to put any oil/grease inside the barrel, like mine which is a Hämmerli AP40. Steyr advises to lightly oil the inside of the barrels of their APs only for long time preservation when it is out of use for a long period. But they should be throughly cleaned with felt pellets before using again.
So, is it really needed??.

I remember having seen a great AP shooter breaking the myth of pellet quality/accuracy here. He took a pellet, deformed it by pressing between the thumb and index and shot the same on a comp target; 10. He repeated the same; another 10. The third was a good 9. Then he asked us to judge by ourselves.
For me, personally, I use only medium quality pellets. RWS Club which costs me 4 Euros (270 Rupees) for a tin of 500 pellets. I have hardly used any RWS Match or H&N match grade pellets because I could not honour their reputation.

best regards

[quote="tirpassion"]
I remember having seen a great AP shooter breaking the myth of pellet quality/accuracy here. He took a pellet, deformed it by pressing between the thumb and index and shot the same on a comp target; 10. He repeated the same; another 10. The third was a good 9. Then he asked us to judge by ourselves.

Hi tirpassion,
> I stand educated if you could please tell me - How can a de-formed pellet have a straight trajectory - won't it wobble?
> What about its ballistics?
> Lastly if the pellet is de-formed, how can it be fed into the breech properly - there would be gaps and air would escape - loss of velocity etc etc
Briha

Briha,

In the interest of keeping to the topic, let me tell you a short story.......

According to scientists, the bumble bee's design is such that it will not fly. But the bumble bee does not know that and it flies anyway......

Sorry but I need feedback badly on washing and lubing. Can't afford to spend more than a rupee for a pellet each. Please bear with me........

M.

brihacharan wrote:

tirpassion wrote: I remember having seen a great AP shooter breaking the myth of pellet quality/accuracy here. He took a pellet, deformed it by pressing between the thumb and index and shot the same on a comp target; 10. He repeated the same; another 10. The third was a good 9. Then he asked us to judge by ourselves.

Hi tirpassion,
> I stand educated if you could please tell me - How can a de-formed pellet have a straight trajectory - won't it wobble?
> What about its ballistics?
> Lastly if the pellet is de-formed, how can it be fed into the breech properly - there would be gaps and air would escape - loss of velocity etc etc
Briha

Brihaji,
I am not apt in answering the ballistics part but I have tried it myself and found that there was no heaven and hell difference in the impacts shot by me. The shooter who did this demo for us during a class is an ex National Champion of France (highest score 584).
Maybe because the thrust of air is sufficient enough to send the pellet straight even if the velocity is lacking. The APs generate a velocity of 140m/s easily. My AP does between 138 to 141 m/s checked with a chronograph. The pellet goes in the chamber at ease after deformation.
I can only request you to try and see for yourself. I think you will find the same result.

best regards
tirpassion

Fantumfan, for "desi" pellets you'd be better served by simply sorting them by weight than getting into washing & lubing them. Get a good scale for the purpose, does not need to be an expensive digital scale a simple analogue reloading scale will suffice. You will see a great reduction in the number of "fliers" if you sort them out in this manner.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

+1

I do the washing and pre-lubing for Mastershot pellets, with whom I practice for my competitions.... and I get amazing groups....

But I am talking only 10m here...

Abhijeet,

Yes it is on the agenda, although I did not mention it.

Olly,

Kindly please elaborate on what all you do. I do know for lubing I cannot use oil based lube as I use a springer for competitions (FWB300S Junior)

Thanks

M.

I use liquid detergent and not powder and wash / lube not more than 2 packs at a time (1000 pellets). Why not more than about a 1000, because they tend to 'crush' each other while washing....

So, liquid detergent in a mug and 2 packs of the lead into it. Stir it around and let them 'stay' for about 1/2 hour. Again some stirring and some 'fingering' and out goes the detergent and fresh water flows in. Some fingering again for about 5 mins and water gets drained out.

They they are transferred onto a newspaper and kept in the sun. It dries for about 2 hours or so... have to check that all water has dried up, particularly 'inside the skirt' ! So you need to peep into the underside of the pellet and check...

Next is the lubrication process... well singer oil with a couple of cap fulls of any heavy oil like engine oil dissolved into it, is the base. A biggish piece of cloth, particularly the type used in under vests etc. is used. The idea is to have a thin cloth. 10 - 15 drops of the prepared oil go onto the cloth and a small hand full of pellets are 'rolled' in, onto the cloth. This has to be done for about 4-5 mins as you want all the oil to lube the outsides of the pellets and none inside the skirts.... This is done for all the pellets eventually. Notice the 'shine' that the thin layer of oil leaves on the pellets....

Next, the pellets go back into their respective boxes and marked 'clean' and stored !

Care needs to be taken while 'fingering' the pellets so as not damage the skirts. It is very easy to damage them when you are playing with so many pellets together...

The dirt and shavings of lead that become visible after the detergent wash is convincing enough, of the importance of wash and lube process...

That's my way and I am sure there is another better way that I can learn, so long as my old bones or lazy brain don't complain...

Well there you have it. I remember how Rusty had first outlined the process, he used Pril as the detergent. He would also diligently roll the pellets in a properly lubed sock to get an even lube. I for one don't lube or wash pellets. My Steyr shoots the gsmith pellets well, I have to just re-zero the sights for them.
When one gets near a competition then you bring out the German or Austrian pellets and zero them in. Use 2T oil to lube as that somehow works with air rifle seals. Have used it on my QB 78 without any damage to the air rifle.

I can't use machine oil to lube the peelets coz it will cause dieseling in my FWB300S (its a springer match rifle)
I read about wax based furniture polish that is available in sprays.....Wonder if its available here.....

M.

Fantumfan, have you read this post? http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1865

Cheers!
Abhijeet

fantumfan2003 wrote:Abhijeet,
Yes it is on the agenda, although I did not mention it.
Olly,
Kindly please elaborate on what all you do. I do know for lubing I cannot use oil based lube as I use a springer for competitions (FWB300S Junior)
Thanks
M.

Hi Fantumfan,
> Loved your analogy of the "BumbleBee"
> Agree with you abt not spending more than a "Rupee" per pellet
> Lastly my experience with Washing & Lubing Pellets - here goes....

Guide to washing and lubing pellets.
I have seen this question asked a few times recently, so I thought I would share my experience & technique for "PREPPING" Pellets with you & hope you find it beneficial.

1.Take a deep round container or dish (preferably plastic). I advise a round container as while using square or rectangular ones, the pellets get trapped / stuck to the corners. Plastic is kinder to the pellets than either china or earthenware, never use a metal vessel as this will cause pellet damage.

2.Fill the container with fairly warm water (Never use boiling water) and add a squirt of liquid detergent to the water, and gently stir in.

3.Tip in the pellets, (a full tin 0f 500 pellets at a time), and gently swirl, brush, and agitate the pellets with a clean paint brush.

4.After about 2 minutes of doing this, tip the pellets into a plastic sieve, and gently swirl the pellets around while holding the sieve under a running tap, to wash off any lead particles/ grit, and detergent bubbles.

5.When all the pellets are clean, tip them onto a sheet of kitchen towel, which has been placed in a large, flat bottomed tray/dish or whatever. Rock/shake the tray back and forth, so the pellets roll about on the kitchen towel, which will absorb the water.

6.When you have done that for a short while, tip the pellets onto another dry piece of kitchen towel and give a hot air blast with a hair dryer. Pay special attention to any remaining water up inside the skirts of the pellets.

7.When you are satisfied that all the water has been removed from the pellets, leave them to cool for a minute or two. What happens next is dependent on personal preference, as there are many different ways of lubing it.

8.My way is to take a fairly large fluff free cotton cloth (an old cut-up T-shirt or bed sheet is ideal) and spray it with pellet lube (I have used very thin machine oil – the type used in sewing machines using a FLIT Pump) and spray on enough to slightly moisten the cloth, and then tip in the dried pellets over it.

9.Hold the corners of the cloth so the pellets lay in the centre "hammock" fashion. Swing the cloth back and forth so that the pellets tumble about in the cloth. Doing it that way ensures only the exterior of the pellets get lubed, and none gets up inside the skirts, which can add weight, causing inconsistency, and accuracy problems.

10.Never be tempted to spray the lube directly on the pellets, as doing this will introduce the lube into the skirt of the pellet and causing dieseling. When you are satisfied that all the pellets have a light even coating of lube, carefully tip them back into a clean tin.

11.The lubed-up cloth can be kept in a sealed plastic bag or jam jar to keep it moist, ready for the next use. THAT'S IT, JOB DONE!

12.I would like to add that, I have never found any accuracy gain or loss from prepping pellets, but I have found them to be much slicker and smoother when being fed into the breech-port.

> As Abhijeet has mentioned - I did the following exercise..
> Took 10 pellets each RHs of Mastershot, Magnashot & GSmith & had them weighed in a electronic balance (courtesy my neighborhood jeweller)
1. Mastershot 10 pellets = 8.420 gms - 1 pellet = 0.842 gms
2. Magnashot 10 pellets = 10.520 gms - 1 pellet = 1.052 gms
3. GSmith 10 pellets = 12.290 gms - 1 pellet = 1.230 gms
> Applying the Gram to Grain ratio the findings are:
1. Mastershot = 14 gr
2. Magnashot = 16.2 gr
3. GSmith = 19 gr
> These 3 provide the Light, Medium Heavy & Heavy Pellet range
> My experience was that all 3 performed well in my AR - got 5/8" grouping at 30ft.
> My personal preference are Magnashot & GSmith - Good Quality in terms of finish, construction & configuration - Good fitment while loading in the breech.
Briha

Dear fantum,
I did the excecise of lubing the pellets of G smith wadcutter after
washing and drying them in 0.177 with coconut oil.My experience is,
no way it improved the accuracy ,rather went in other way.
so I had to wash the oil out.

Basu