Indians For Guns

Hi all,

I am hoping that someone can give me some advice on tuning a Webley Patriot. Any help would be appreciated.

Best regards,

Andrew

mooncat,

You have the Patriot in the UK or elsewhere ? If its in the UK, I hope you are aware of the 12ft lb limit as the Patriot is easily double that power.... Unless you have an FAC for it.....

The best tuner for the Patriot is in the US where the Patriot is known as the Beeman Kodiak.

M.

mooncat wrote:Hi all,

I am hoping that someone can give me some advice on tuning a Webley Patriot. Any help would be appreciated.

Best regards,

Andrew

Yes I have an FAC it would be a bit difficult to get hold of one otherwise.

-- Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:31 am --

Come on someone must know how to tune these rifles. I have spoken to CAP in the US and he is useless unless you want to send your rifle to him and spend a fortune. The Patriot is just a springer which I have already improved on with de burring and moly lubricant along with a Titan XS mainspring but I am sure further refinements are possible without spending a fortune. The rifle runs at about 23 ftlbs now but there is a slight buzz from it and I feel it could be smoother and produce more velocity.
I have read the posts on here you guys have a lot of knowledge and ingenuity!

Atb,

Andrew

Andrew,

You have done most of the things done in a tune, except a few....Is there a synthetic guide or a metal guide for the spring ? like wise for the top hat ? How do both of them fit ? Has it been broken in ? How many shots have you shot through it after the debur and re-spring op ? Put about a 1000 or 1500 pellets through it and see what happens. The buzz may go away after that.

You can learn a lot from the CAP site as to what you can do to make it better. This one is a power house and will never shoot like a BSA Meteor or an HW30S......It will be hold sensitive, which may reduce after tune, but won't go away completely , what ever you do and will need some amount of discipline on your part to shoot it accurately. Artillery hold and all that....

And yes....My compliments to you for staying with a springer. An FAC holder in the UK has a lot of other easy choices on the darker side, I mean PCPs......

If you need any more help...give me a shout....

M.

mooncat wrote:Yes I have an FAC it would be a bit difficult to get hold of one otherwise.

-- Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:31 am --

Come on someone must know how to tune these rifles. I have spoken to CAP in the US and he is useless unless you want to send your rifle to him and spend a fortune. The Patriot is just a springer which I have already improved on with de burring and moly lubricant along with a Titan XS mainspring but I am sure further refinements are possible without spending a fortune. The rifle runs at about 23 ftlbs now but there is a slight buzz from it and I feel it could be smoother and produce more velocity.
I have read the posts on here you guys have a lot of knowledge and ingenuity!

Atb,

Andrew

Hi M,

Yes you are right about it being hold sensitive I have a hunch that as the power increases the hold sensitivity increases also. I adopt an artillery hold and I get amazing accuracy from the rifle if I do my bit.
The rifle has a snug fitting top hat as standard; the only weak link may be the "patented damper system" which is in effect a synthetic spring guide. I know that it will never be like a 97 for smoothness but you know what it is like to own a springer there is always room for improvement or at least it seems like that. I have a Rapid 17 MK1 which runs at over 900 fps in .177 with 15 grain pellets and is clinical, it does not give me the same pleasure as the Patriot though.

Atb,

Andrew

Andrew,

True, True, Very True......I Agree COMPLETELY..............

What cal is your Pat ? Did you chrono it before the tune ? Any changes in the muzzle energy post tune ?

Regarding guides, here are some tips from the bloke who knows them best....

"Delrin rear guide is good. The brass top hat is good, There is room for more too. More with out the right springs will kick like a mule.

Do not get to fancy with the trigger, You cant get parts and its a simple latch sear . Its not to much there to work with. They have been known to malfunction when tinkered with. Its actually a strong set up and works well for hunting situations.

Rob that spring will not work unless the gun is a OLDER EARLY version gun, and I'm not sure of that. I have 4 Patriots all different ages, They all are the same measurements. This was from the mouth of Macarri himself. That spring is .930 top .940 OD. I Have tried. Plus its not that much more powerful than the factory spring. Its a 36 lb spring per inch load. The Macarri Monolith springs are the best spring ever made for that gun. Its a power spring from Macarri himself. He quit making them a while back.( Unless you are close friends , then maybe) This I can tell you DO NOT BORE the piston. The Monolith is .860 OD and .148 wire, Its a 47 lb per inch spring and is much more suited to the Patriot. The factory spring is next, its a 32 to 33 Lb per inch spring and can be worked with the proper weight and balance. I also I have a few custom springs that give great power that I'm testing now ! What do you want to do with the gun TOM?

Stock spring will get you 29 to 30 ft lbs with the right parts.

If you want silk smooth go with a factory spring . Or a decreased PSI gas ram. 775 780 fps @20 grain FTS with little kick, and dead thunk. !"


Hope that helps.....

Manish

mooncat wrote: but you know what it is like to own a springer there is always room for improvement or at least it seems like that. I have a Rapid 17 MK1 which runs at over 900 fps in .177 with 15 grain pellets and is clinical, it does not give me the same pleasure as the Patriot though.

Atb,

Andrew

Hi Manish,

The Patriot is in .22 and I am using Webley Mosquitoes as they have outperformed everything so far including JSB and all the clones. I have only put about 500 through it so far. I forgot to mention I fitted a new piston seal along with putting a radius on the inside of the transfer port, polished the piston, polished the cocking shoe and changed all the stock screws for the Allen head type. It isn't performing badly I just want it as good as it will get.
Who is the guy you have quoted re Monolith springs and guides etc?

Cheers,

Andrew

Andrew,

You have done pretty much everything done in a tune. I'd say you should be happy with 25 to 28 ft lbs depending on the Pats lineage and vintage (British, Turkish etc...).

Its the owner of CAP, I have quoted. Jim Maccari used to make Monolith springs sometime ago. It would probably be worth a try to drop him an email and see if he can come up with a spring for you. I have never used Titan, but many JMs and will vouch for them.

M.

Thanks M,

It's a British Patriot and appeared to be hardly used no wear at all inside or out. I think you are right I will just keep using it as it is.

Cheers,

Andrew