CO2 refills for air-guns

[striker]

if i plan to get .177co2 can i able to refill the cartridge by myself..... is pumps available for recharging co2?

[mundaire]

Striker, you can certainly refill the cylinders by yourself. For this you would need access to someone who stocks industrial CO2 gas cylinders. You would then need to have someone fabricate an "adaptor" for you, which at one end can screw into the industrial CO2 cylinder and at the other end you can screw in your air-gun cylinder.

Once this is in place - the recommended method for refilling is to "chill" the air-gun cylinder overnight in your freezer and take then fit it onto said industrial CO2 cylinder, then incline the industrial cylinder so that the bottom is slightly raised and the top (where the filling valve is) is facing downwards. Then bathe the industrial CO2 cylinder with warm water for a few minutes and then open the valve to let the CO2 gas flow into your air-gun's cylinder. After a few minutes screw the valve shut and unscrew your air-gun cylinder from the "adaptor" fitting.

This is how I have seen it being done... since Dev has a CO2 rifle and (AFAIK) has in fact had such an adaptor fabricated himself, I would imagine he would be able to add more detail/ first hand experiences here...

HTH

Cheers,
Abhijeet

[striker]

if fabricated adaptor can be used to fill the cylinder then compressedair like we inflate the tyres can be used ? co2 and compressed air make any diffrence in performance?

[Sujay]

Stiker,

Airgun and rifles designed to use CO2 as power source are completely different from those designed to use compressed air as power source. You cannot and should not attempt to fill the CO2 cylinder of air rifle with compressed air and vice versa.

Regarding difference in performance, temperature fluctuations affect the power of of CO2 and hence its point of impact and CO2 works well in dry and warm atmosphere. I am pasting a section from Mack The Knife's mail to me on this subject regarding use of compressed air and CO2 which will place the matter in better perspective----

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There are three ways in which to charge the air reservoir of a PCP - directly from an air compressor, a manual pump that looks like a bicycle pump and from a scuba tank.

If the pressure involved is 200 BAR or a little more and the capacity of the pcp's air reservoir isn't large a manual pump could be used without having to be as fit as Charles Atlas. The one draw back of a pump is it's inability to provide 100% dry air. This inability could lead to corrosion within the airgun at a later date. Hence, when using a pump, it would be better if it could be used in as dry an environment as possible (an AC room?), the pump is not overheated by too many strokes at one go and by fully draining away the moisture from it's moisture trap after use.

Air compressors come in all sizes and capacities but these are expensive units and are best bought by a large club or popular gun shop. However, the air from these is dry and will not cause corrosion.

Scuba tanks are extremely popular as these are filled from compressors and since these are also available in various capacities/sizes, they can be taken along if need be. Filling from these does not require any effort - quite unlike a pump. The one draw back of tanks is Boyle's Law (P1V1 = P2V2, temperature remaining constant). For example, if you had a 5 litre tank rated for 200 BAR and your airgun's reservoir had a capacity of 100ml rated at 200 BAR, then after a few fills at 200 BAR, the pressure in the Scuba tank would start dropping from the original 200 BAR and you would get corressponding less pressure in your airgun with each fill. This is not a problem with 10 metre airguns as they require less pressure per shot compared to sporting pcp's and hence have a large shot capacity. For an individual who does not shoot everyday or one who does not shoot 500 pellets per day, this type of cylinder will go a long way. For a 10 metre club or a sporting pcp user, this would need to be refilled at closer intervals.

Auto pump's, even those for trucks, do not generate anywhere near the pressure required for pcps. Also bear in mind that pcps should be filled in a clean environment. Any foreign particle, even an eye lash, that contaminates the valve will result in a leakage. To fill a compressed air tank, you will either have to use the compressor at the fire station, a factory that has such a compressor or from dedicated compressed air and gas factories.

In India, you actually need a licence to own a compressed air cylinder (costs about 10,000/- inclusive of cylinder in B'lore). However, most shooters use tanks (without a *******) that are being salvaged from ships that come in for breakage. These cylinders are generally in poor condition and if one should let go, chances of survival are almost non-existent. They are literally like powerful bombs.

CO2 is filled in tanks that outwardly resemble a scuba tank and come in varying sizes. Getting them filled is far easier as there are factories in all cities as it is needed for fizzy drinks. You can also get a good quality cylinder from the factory. Pressures are also relatively low. The problem with CO2 is that the pressure increases as the temperature goes up and this can cause the point of impact to change. When used in semi-auto airguns at a rapid rate, the CO2 becomes very cold and this can cause a dramatic decrease in velocity. You need to be specific about the CO2 gun you have in mind, it's intended purpose and cost. If it's the sort that uses discardable C02 'bulbs', then your running cost is going to be very high.

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[dev]

Hello,

Didn't have anything made, the adapter was available to refill from a paintball bottle, by mac1airgun. Most target pistol cylinders are refillable from the Co2 tanks available at target ranges. They are the same as the large ones vailable for medical use. But if you are gonna compete you may want to avoid the gas hassle by buying something like the IZH Baikal 46M.

Regards,

Dev

Striker, you can certainly refill the cylinders by yourself. For this you would need access to someone who stocks industrial CO2 gas cylinders. You would then need to have someone fabricate an "adaptor" for you, which at one end can screw into the industrial CO2 cylinder and at the other end you can screw in your air-gun cylinder.

Once this is in place - the recommended method for refilling is to "chill" the air-gun cylinder overnight in your freezer and take then fit it onto said industrial CO2 cylinder, then incline the industrial cylinder so that the bottom is slightly raised and the top (where the filling valve is) is facing downwards. Then bathe the industrial CO2 cylinder with warm water for a few minutes and then open the valve to let the CO2 gas flow into your air-gun's cylinder. After a few minutes screw the valve shut and unscrew your air-gun cylinder from the "adaptor" fitting.

This is how I have seen it being done... since Dev has a CO2 rifle and (AFAIK) has in fact had such an adaptor fabricated himself, I would imagine he would be able to add more detail/ first hand experiences here...

HTH

Cheers,
Abhijeet

[Mack The Knife]

Blimey, Sujay! You actually save all that stuff!

Rusatm

[striker]

hai dev
is the paintball bottle used to fill co2 pistols is available in indian retail market does it have any other commercial name,
In a tread i saw ur post that u got izh 46m baikal from mac1airgun through courier.i am not a member of any rifleclub could i able to import them through post without any hassle.if i could means wat would be the landing cost along with duty...ur reply can make me achieve my dream airpistol "pet"


Thanks
Striker

[shahid]

There are products from UK air rifle assesory suppliers now, where compressed air may be substituted for CO2 in Umarex / Walther type empty CO2 cylinders.

[badshah0522]

If nothing Works,,then the best & cheapest way is a Desi Gujar..Take a Soda Maker cylender,Contact any good leath Shop he will make an adapter for you compatible with ur gun & cylender.Can get refilled at any shop for Rs 25/- I made an adapter for my self for a National cadet Co2 Airgun,it is working fine and i am using it from past 4 years.Small Size ,Can be used for 3-4 times,Easy to carry,Ease of Refill.
For further clarification feel free to contact me.
Cheers,
Badshah

[striker]

hai badshah
i like ur desi design to refill aircartridges instead of looking for imported items .and it would be more helpful if u post some pics regarding how u recharge by desi sodacans,adaptors

Thanks
Striker

[dev]

These substitutes have failed miserably cause I spent year doing research on them for my Crosman gas pistol.

The amount of compressed air in the 12g cartridge is too little to genreate more than six shots in a conventional repeating Co2 pistol.

Regards,

Dev

There are products from UK air rifle assesory suppliers now, where compressed air may be substituted for CO2 in Umarex / Walther type empty CO2 cylinders.

[dev]

Striker they say that if you can dream it you can do it. The cost of your IZH Baikal through courier will be about 16,000 then add 35% duty. If you are not a member of a rifle club atleast carry a copy of the gazette extraordinary page which is available on this site that declares tha .177 air pistols can be imported through courier.
So wake up and rush to make your dream turn real.

Regards,

Dev

hai dev
is the paintball bottle used to fill co2 pistols is available in indian retail market does it have any other commercial name,
In a tread i saw ur post that u got izh 46m baikal from mac1airgun through courier.i am not a member of any rifleclub could i able to import them through post without any hassle.if i could means wat would be the landing cost along with duty...ur reply can make me achieve my dream airpistol "pet"


Thanks
Striker

[striker]

hai dev
Through online which website is best buy shop (ie) B.A.R ,Mac1 Airguns,pyramids in terms of reliable ,courier cost...etc


Thanks
Striker

[badshah0522]

Hi Stricker!

I wish i could post pics. but i am not at ahome,soon i ll b back and post the pics.
Its very easy and works excellent.Ill try to make diagram and post u.
cheers

hai badshah
i like ur desi design to refill aircartridges instead of looking for imported items .and it would be more helpful if u post some pics regarding how u recharge by desi sodacans,adaptors

Thanks
Striker

[mundaire]

An article on the Pyramidair blog on why CO2 & air cannot be substituted for each other in airguns...

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/04/ ... -fill.html

Cheers!
Abhijeet