Indian Air Rifle/Air Gun Comparison - Series 1

[slingshot]

So how about shoving that over-inflated ego of yours aside and getting back to turning the SDB around and teaching us a few new things like Brihji ? Now that would be something we all shall look forward to. Good Luck.

[bennedose]

What attracted me to this thread ws the fact that I have also been scouring local shops for Indian made air rifles. Let me post what I have seen - at least my personal impressions.

I visited 5 shops in the last 5 days. They can be differentoated by the pellets they sell and the air rifle mdels they seem to push. I will not bother naming names so I don't need to defame or praise any particular shop. I will talk about pellets in a separate thread byut I found it useful to remember the shops by the pellets they sell.

One is the Marshall shot shop. (+1 for Marshal shot flat head pellets.) The second was the Mastershot shop. Mastershot round head is best for me. The others will be described in the appropriate thread. Shop 3 is the India shot shop. He told me the pellets were "OK" I did not buy. Shop 4 is the Diana shot shop. Diana shot round head is OK in my hands. Shop 5 has the craziest pellets I have seen. Huge guys. This shop even had a large biscuit tin in the corridor which customers could shoot using those vulgarly large pellets. Those pellets were like opening a mouse hideout and finding baby hippopotomases inside. Three out of five shops demonstrated the "power" of their air guns by firing off blank despite my objection, but in retrospect my objection was probably silly because they must have been doing it for every customer anyway.

The "big pellet" shop had DAW rifles. They looked rough and ready like Fred Flintstone level tech. Cocking required some effort, and I think trigger action was smooth. I had never heard the name and Googled for it. My uncle, Shri Google has also not heard much about them. This shop had what i felt were the "typical Indian customer". Wealthy farmers from a neighbouring state who were probably looking for human and animal varmint control. Indian customers by and large do not seem to be particularly demanding and discerning. This particular shop had nothing but DAW, and a few large and vulgar looking air pistols. This was not the shop for me.

Next was the Diana shot shop. Friendly. Informative. Showed me the IHP 35 and quoted a good price. Pointed out a few new features about front sight. Told me that the smooth bore air pistols of .22 were bought for "self defence" He had DAW and told me that DAW has a feature that allows some phosphorus compound to be placed near the muzzle to get sound and light. Bought some Diana shot and promised to return to look at IHP 35

Next was India shot shop. Friendly. Interesting. He had a Chinese side lever selling for 37,000. Didn't bother looking at it. He also had some thing marked as xx International - may have been SK or AK international. This was an underlever India made 0.22 rifle that tempted me althogh I thought the price was steep -10 k) . he assured me that it was rifled, but I could not be sure. The assistant helpfully fired off two shots without pellets making me wince. The underlever cocking effort was huge - giving the impression of a bull of a spring. There were two safety catches for cocking, but the gun still scared me because cocking pulled back a metal piston exposing a gap big enough for two fingers to insert a pellet into the breech opening. But if the spring gets accidentally released while you are putting the pellet in its curtains for your finger and thumb. They will have to be fired out of the barrel Looked fiddly and dangerous. I ruled that one out.

Next I went to Matershop shop. This guy is an old friend. He never has any names for makes but showed me an IHP 35 with no rear sight. A "rare sight" indeed huh? He informed me that "Complaints have come about Precihole" - but that is is definitely not what I have heard from shooters whom I trust. Bought Mastershot round and departed.

Earlier I had seen the Precihole in the Masrhal shot shop. I think I will buy the Precihole Orion soon, but may also get an IHP in due course - unless I get the courage to strip open my SDB 50 and do some operations on its insides. After reading the "Gunsmithing" thread I am getting tempted to do that.

The verdict from my exploration? If you are a keen shooter who looks for accuracy and power within the legal limit, follow the advice on this forum and go for Precihole or IHP 35 (or some similar IHP model).

If you simply wanna have fun - get the DAW or an SDB or even a cheaper rifle and simply have fun. Air guns, and I expect all guns are like Heroin. You can never get enough power. You will always want "more muzzle velocity" and "more penetration". But there are legal limits and that is going to hold you back. Befriend a good gunsmith or tune up your rifle yourself to get the maximum out of it. But if you are not into all that just have fun. Plink. Blast. Spin. Kill that maths text you hated in school. Whatever. No matter which rifle you have you will always find someone who has seen or has a better one. Simply pick up one that suits your pocket and get down to shooting and let experience teach you how lousy your aim really is and that the 6 inch spread you get is more about you than the rifle you want to blame. The only thing that is in your control - accuracy, is something you may never get no matter how good your rifle is. Better to shoot lousy and blame the rifle. If you need to see good shooting, become a member of a local shooting club.

[fantumfan2003]

The verdict from my exploration? If you are a keen shooter who looks for accuracy and power within the legal limit, follow the advice on this forum and go for Precihole or IHP 35

[fantumfan2003]

But disagree with the "shoot lousy and blame rifle" bit. Also you can be a good shot if you have space to practice at home. If the local shooting club has proper range facilities, it is so much better. Guidance from a coach their is like icing on cake.

Good to see that you value accuracy so much unlike most who are obsessed with power. Blame it on your HW35

M.

No matter which rifle you have you will always find someone who has seen or has a better one. Simply pick up one that suits your pocket and get down to shooting and let experience teach you how lousy your aim really is and that the 6 inch spread you get is more about you than the rifle you want to blame. The only thing that is in your control - accuracy, is something you may never get no matter how good your rifle is. Better to shoot lousy and blame the rifle. If you need to see good shooting, become a member of a local shooting club.

[bennedose]

Shooting is like Golf. The last good shot you played is always "your game". The 70% bad shots are wind, pull, swing, bad day, bad weather, someone sneeezed etc. In shooting "My shooting" is always the two that hit bullseye. The 7 that spread all over the target and the one that missed even that do not count. And the last, very last pellet that I saved to shoot that tin can proves my supreme accuracy as the can goes spinning away.

[fantumfan2003]

Totally Disagree
Who told you that ? That is absolutely Bull Sh!t

M.

Shooting is like Golf. The last good shot you played is always "your game". The 70% bad shots are wind, pull, swing, bad day, bad weather, someone sneeezed etc. In shooting "My shooting" is always the two that hit bullseye. The 7 that spread all over the target and the one that missed even that do not count. And the last, very last pellet that I saved to shoot that tin can proves my supreme accuracy as the can goes spinning away.

[bennedose]

Good to see that you value accuracy so much unlike most who are obsessed with power. Blame it on your HW35

Although I have been plinking for decades and have enjoyed "successes' like shooting off match heads and hitting coins, it was only after I joined a rifle club that I realised that you have to shoot a target to see how bad one's aim can get. Hitting a tin can twice in three shots at 5 meters is like a 10 inch spread on a 10 meter range. The 4 to 6 inch can is very forgiving and gives you auditory feedback no matter which part you hit.

Anyone who plinks "accurately" in my view should be allowed to enjoy himself and think he is a crack shot - like I did for decades. I had to join the club before I found I was a crack pot to think I was good. Not a crack shot. I think this holds true for a lot of happy and self satisfied plinkers. One shooter I met recently comes from out of town - he has a memento of a target at 50 meters (0.22 prone, not air rifle) where ten shots have cut a neat hole exactly in the center of the target sheet. I can also do that - I only need a pair of scissors. i can't do it with a rifle though. Not even at 10 meters.

[bennedose]

Totally Disagree
Who told you that ? That is absolutely Bull Sh!t

No one tells me things that I say. I say them myself. If you think it is bullshit that is your preogative to soak up any bullshit I may leave here for you to see.

I wonder if this forum software has an ignore feature? Looks like I can use it. Ah! It does

[essdee1972]

Bennedose, I had (still have) an SDB Model 27 in 0.22. I got it tuned by a gunsmith. He changed the spring, and made that blasted trigger smooth. Very smooth. So smooth that one day, the gun fired off while closing the breech after cocking (my shooting hand was nowhere close to the trigger), and neatly shot a groove through my index finger (my bad, I was holding the barrel too close to the muzzle). I was bleeding like a stuck pig, and thanking my lucky stars that I cared a bit about safety and didn't have my kid, my dog, or someone else in the line of fire! And damn all, I couldn't go to a doc, who knows this piddly injury would have led to a ban on airguns!! This gun now adorns the wall (I had done some decent work on the stock and it really shines). I have put a bit of M-seal in the breech, you can't even push a pellet in unless you drill through the M-seal!

My 2 cents? If you value your fingers, the rest of your skin, your family / friends / pets / belongings, ditch the SDB and go for an PH Orion (I don't have any experience with IHPs other than Briha-sir's supertuned Samurai-san, which is surely not representative of the factory-fresh stuff, to say the least!!). The breech of my Orion can be opened and closed with my left hand (I am very right handed) by holding the barrel 2 inches down the length. Cocking requires holding the barrel halfway down. And I never visited a gym in my life!

Of course, if you can afford the international (China is not international) stuff (I certainly can't), go for it!

[bennedose]

neatly shot a groove through my index finger (my bad, I was holding the barrel too close to the muzzle). I was bleeding like a stuck pig, and thanking my lucky stars that I cared a bit about safety and didn't have my kid, my dog, or someone else in the line of fire!

Ouch! Sounds like a painful injury. Yes - the lack of safety catch in almost all Indian rifles and the fact that at least some of them have a light trigger makes a dangerous combo.

The first rifle I owned - an underlever had a similarly weird problem. Although the pellet port was absolutely safe and there was no way you could jam a finger in there, there was always the possibility of the underlever shooting up and jamming all your fingers under the barrel if you did not replace it and lock it properly. And it was a lousy lock and the lever would sometimes simply unlock and fall loose when the gun was cocked and ready to fire. Safety is not taken all that seriously by the makers of many of these rifles. Once you have paid for it, its your problem

I really do not want to invest in another imported rifle. I am too cheap for that. I will simply "make do" with what is available within my budget.

[airgun_novice]

Although I have been plinking for decades and have enjoyed "successes' like shooting off match heads and hitting coins, it was only after I joined a rifle club that I realised that you have to shoot a target to see how bad one's aim can get. Hitting a tin can twice in three shots at 5 meters is like a 10 inch spread on a 10 meter range. The 4 to 6 inch can is very forgiving and gives you auditory feedback no matter which part you hit.

Anyone who plinks "accurately" in my view should be allowed to enjoy himself and think he is a crack shot - like I did for decades. I had to join the club before I found I was a crack pot to think I was good. Not a crack shot. I think this holds true for a lot of happy and self satisfied plinkers. One shooter I met recently comes from out of town - he has a memento of a target at 50 meters (0.22 prone, not air rifle) where ten shots have cut a neat hole exactly in the center of the target sheet. I can also do that - I only need a pair of scissors. i can't do it with a rifle though. Not even at 10 meters.

Yes, dear bennedose, the clink of the can gives you the thrill but once you start aiming for the elusive dot on the air-rifle card, it gives you the satisfaction ! Shooting match-heads off from say 10m is quite a feat - fairly close to AR card. Long long back I was happy at shooting agarbattis, candles, pieces of chalks, felt-pen caps and then there was a huge lull. And a couple of decades later one day, I met my friend - a world champion who told me point blank that once I concentrated on target and competitive shooting I would actually be bored shooting coins and soda caps at 10m and that rare thrill like an orgasm would erupt only when I hit the center dot. How true ! And then I shifted to the pistol... (sigh)

[bennedose]

And a couple of decades later one day, I met my friend - a world champion who told me point blank that once I concentrated on target and competitive shooting I would actually be bored shooting coins and soda caps at 10m and that rare thrill like an orgasm would erupt only when I hit the center dot.

Wise words. The big difference between competitive shooting and plinking is that the thrill ends with the plink in the latter, but it only begins with the first center dot. Funny that it took me decades of plinking before I learned that.

[airgun_novice]

That FF2003 is the difference between entry level plinkers v/s serious competitive shooters.While the later make every shot count, the happy-go-lucky plinkers simply rejoice at the audio-visual feedback. They are satisfied with "lag gayi" rather than "Oh! a #9 - must make it #10.9 on the next". What matters though is the sheer joy that one gets out of air gun shooting.

I can relate my days gone by with what bennedose writes and he seems to be transforming himself into a target/ competitive shooter like us.

After "VS" showed me the light of making every shot count on the paper target, I seldom missed the black with the rifle on a pistol target and later also seldom the black on the AR target. It was no longer "OK I missed with this one - shall try with the next pellet" - but "Why did I miss?" followed by a host of questions. Anyway, though a bit OT, thought it was on track considering the train of thought. What say ?

regs
A.
=======

Totally Disagree
Who told you that ? That is absolutely Bull Sh!t

M.

Shooting is like Golf. The last good shot you played is always "your game". The 70% bad shots are wind, pull, swing, bad day, bad weather, someone sneeezed etc. In shooting "My shooting" is always the two that hit bullseye. The 7 that spread all over the target and the one that missed even that do not count. And the last, very last pellet that I saved to shoot that tin can proves my supreme accuracy as the can goes spinning away.

[joywarrior]

[SNIP] I never advised "do anything you want with air rifle", [SNIP] So I'll stay away from that trap.

Dear Joywarrior

Quoting you here -> "*.177 /.22 - I and I alone - will decide what I need and for what purpose"
I do not use traps either - Mortein works just fine.

........getting back to turning the SDB around and teaching us a few new things like Brihji ? Now that would be something we all shall look forward to. Good Luck.

Dear Joywarrior

Quoting you here -> "*.177 /.22 - I and I alone - will decide what I need and for what purpose"
I do not use traps either - Mortein works just fine.

.... getting back to turning the SDB around and teaching us a few new things like Brihji ? Now that would be something we all shall look forward to. Good Luck.

Oh I wouldn't go close to attempting to be as one as knowledgeable as Briha Sir, but well advised, and I will try to bring something new to the forum soon, both in terms of the SDB and some other brands as well. I have done some minor adjustments with my SDB so results are improving rapidly. Got a grouping of .78 inch - 1.09 inch 10 rounds - 10m, as well. Will load details videos / images soon, once it becomes a repeat pattern. Mean while if you are really interested in experiences with Indian brands bennedose has articulated a beautiful piece above. Mentioning it just in case any one's interested.

....And oh the intended purpose of .177 and .22 its well known, it can either be Competitive Shooting or Plinking..Duhhhh..

Wishes
joywarrior


P.S. The Mortein Joke was a good one....

[joywarrior]

So how about shoving that over-inflated ego of yours aside and getting back to turning the SDB around and teaching us a few new things like Brihji ? Now that would be something we all shall look forward to. Good Luck.

Message received .

Wishes
Joywarrior