My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

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brihacharan
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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by brihacharan » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:46 am

Thank you guys for your appreciation :D
As I anticipated & also posted - there'll be all sorts of queries about specs, velocity, design etc:
My answer is simple - Just wait for the manufacturer to launch the product & they will be the best people to answer them...
However here are some basic information that should initially satisfy your curiosity :P

1. The PH Gas Rams will be pressurized to conform to the 12fpe statuotory requirement - Guys the manufacturer is in business legally & lawfully to market their products successfully & provide a healthy competition in this industry & not flout any legal / forensic regulations / laws.
I repeat for the "Nth" time ... Please don't be obsessed with velocity - Higher the velocity = Poor is the accuracy - So what do you want??? An accurate AR with decent velocity that conforms to regulations or A high velocity AR that flouts regulations but can't hit a Barn Yard Door at 10ft????????

2. Theoben were the first to manufacture & patent the Gas Ram. They sell their GRs to other AR manufacturers like how "Intel" sells to other computer manufacturers. PH's Gas Ram in my considered opinion comes as close to the international brand as it possibly can, may be with some minor modifications to suit its ARs. I've seen both these & used them too - both behave / perform very similar. QED!!!!

As I had mentioned in my introductory post - Please wait for PH to announce its availability in the market - Its worth the wait :D
Briha

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by airgun_novice » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:44 pm

brihacharan wrote:Thank you guys for your appreciation :D
As I anticipated & also posted - there'll be all sorts of queries about specs, velocity, design etc:
My answer is simple - Just wait for the manufacturer to launch the product & they will be the best people to answer them...
However here are some basic information that should initially satisfy your curiosity :P

1. The PH Gas Rams will be pressurized to conform to the 12fpe statuotory requirement - Guys the manufacturer is in business legally & lawfully to market their products successfully & provide a healthy competition in this industry & not flout any legal / forensic regulations / laws.
I repeat for the "Nth" time ... Please don't be obsessed with velocity - Higher the velocity = Poor is the accuracy - So what do you want??? An accurate AR with decent velocity that conforms to regulations or A high velocity AR that flouts regulations but can't hit a Barn Yard Door at 10ft????????

2. Theoben were the first to manufacture & patent the Gas Ram. They sell their GRs to other AR manufacturers like how "Intel" sells to other computer manufacturers. PH's Gas Ram in my considered opinion comes as close to the international brand as it possibly can, may be with some minor modifications to suit its ARs. I've seen both these & used them too - both behave / perform very similar. QED!!!!

As I had mentioned in my introductory post - Please wait for PH to announce its availability in the market - Its worth the wait :D
Briha
"...worth the wait..." -> Well said, Sir. Jai (Gas) Ram ji ki" :cheers:

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by dr.jayakumar » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:52 pm

Thanks Brihaji,never knew something excisted like this.must be smooth to operate compared to springs.
regards
dr.jk

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by brihacharan » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:54 pm

dr.jayakumar wrote: Thanks Brihaji,never knew something excisted like this.must be smooth to operate compared to springs.
regards
dr.jk
Yes Dr.JK,
Gas Ram presents a different ball game altogether....
The most important aspect in comparison between Gas Ram & Spring is the miniscule eccentricity in the latter, which the Gas Ram does not have.
After all a compressed spring when released will not go back to its original length in a straight line where as a Gas Ram would.
This difference is a major attribute in its favour, smooth cocking, almost no vibration, short lock time, less maintenance hence longer life etc.
All I can say is experience the joy of shooting with a Gas Ram installed AR...
Briha

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by Kumarnishith » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:14 am

Well..well..Now I have started giving double thoughts about importing a springer :mrgreen: Can't wait for all new Orion to hit the market :D
Briha Sir...Any idea what will be the expected price of the new airgun? Also, what is the expected date/month of launch?


-Nishith

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by brihacharan » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:15 am

Kumarnishith wrote: Well..well..Now I have started giving double thoughts about importing a springer :mrgreen: Can't wait for all new Orion to hit the market :D
Briha Sir...Any idea what will be the expected price of the new airgun? Also, what is the expected date/month of launch?
-Nishith
Hi there,
I can well understand your eager & enthusiastic response....
All I can share is that PH is working towards it .... One has to exercise a little patience & wait for their annoncement :D
Briha

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by kasimpatel » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:11 am

Before jump in to gas ram,percihole need to improove thier product.their AR still have so many problems.like trigger, aim pin etc.

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by Basu » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:34 am

It is a nice gift for power loving Precihole owners.
To my mind, size and shape of this ram only compatible in their guns.
It is very pleasing to see that, no more Indians need to depend on import for such things.

Basu
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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by andy_65_in » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:21 am

im also interseted- i have a diana mod 52 fixed barrel in .177

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by pratik_mahale » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:22 am

kasimpatel wrote:Before jump in to gas ram,percihole need to improove thier product.their AR still have so many problems.like trigger, aim pin etc.
Yes there were some problems in perciholes guns but how you finish is much more important than how you start!

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by Katana » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:40 am

It's indeed good news! I'm in the queue for changing my spring for the gas ram on the Orion. However, I wish Precihole would recall all their ARs and drop in a better trigger. One that works each and every time. If this change does come about, I guess I'll make an altogether new stock too. Don't fancy that synthetic one.
1. The PH Gas Rams will be pressurized to conform to the 12fpe statuotory requirement - Guys the manufacturer is in business legally & lawfully to market their products successfully & provide a healthy competition in this industry & not flout any legal / forensic regulations / laws.
AFAIK, there is no restriction on the energy output. The only guide is the deal wood test, which in turn is archaic. Therefore this argument does not really hold water. I suppose the manufacturers just want to play it safe.

Altogether, the PH Orion still has a long way to go before it becomes a tried and tested product. The introduction of the Gas Ram is definitely in the right direction.
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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by supershaji » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:47 am

Aadaab Birha Saheb,

You're a bearer of glad tidings indeed.

The PH GR AR sure sounds like a SO (Smooth Operator), all puns intended.

I also hope they consider a wood stock for their ARs too, if they don't one of here should start taking orders for custom ones.
chitty-vitty, bang-shang

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by brihacharan » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:00 pm

[quote="Katana"]
AFAIK, there is no restriction on the energy output. The only guide is the deal wood test, which in turn is archaic. Therefore this argument does not really hold water. I suppose the manufacturers just want to play it safe.

The Dealwood Test is not only archaic but also ill conceived & mis-applied....
POWER & PENETRATION are RECIPROCAL
Simply put - More the power- Greater the possibility of penetration...
It's not the question of purely Playing it Safe - But conforming to good manufacturing practices & conforming to rules / regulations / mandates / law etc that's applicable to this industry.
Briha

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by airgun_novice » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:10 pm

pratik_mahale wrote:
kasimpatel wrote:Before jump in to gas ram,percihole need to improove thier product.their AR still have so many problems.like trigger, aim pin etc.
Yes there were some problems in perciholes guns but how you finish is much more important than how you start!
Well said, Pratik. Moreover, which direction you choose and the boldness exhibited in taking that step is also worth noting. We must remember that any change in product assembly line entails costs in terms of capital investment which more often than not takes a considerable time to recover, let alone get into profits. That is what I appreciate about PH as a company and its vision.

As an example, I quote from an old news article - Students of IIT Mumbai had submitted a paper to a manufacturer of auto-rickshaws, to make them more fuel-efficient and customer friendly from safety perspective. The MD who is a mighty intelligent fellow himself appreciated all their efforts and agreed with them conceptually. But it would entail about Rs. 1 crore of investment in the assembly line changes, he said. Why should I spend that much when there's already an international and national market for what I am selling currently ?! Now what was a crore to a wealthy and unbeatable man like him ? A drop in a bucket ? But that was his attitude and unwillingness to invest into a better future - for OTHERS !

Coming back to Indian ARs - late Shri. Walchand Hirachand's dreams and strong will prevailed into getting us an IHP. That is definitely laudable. But what did the inheritors do ? They had all the things necessary to make India an AR manufacturing hub like PRC or even Turkey - cash flow (their main business has a turnover of several hundred times as compared with the AR unit), ready made market, infrastructure, lines & channels of sales etc. But in spite of all these things, they possibly lacked the vision and the desire to go big. Thankfully, they nevertheless allowed the good Doc to better the existing products and introduce newer ones in the PCP line.

I know of one and heard of other Indian entrepreneurs who chose to take that step in spite of being small fish, both of them technically strong. One of them took strides in terms of technical and qualitative aspects of springers while the other ventured into PCP domain. Both thought of readily providing various orders of "spares" which the Indian user simply did not know where to go for. In one case, it was pointed out that certain aspect of the business model chosen was not ethically right and the last I heard, he had corrected that mistake. Both sustain with variable degree of success. For reasons, I choose not to name them.

But what about the other "production houses" in India ? They remind me of horror movie makers of yore, who churned out similar fare using the same rubber masks over and over. Or the monopolistic car company, when we were "socialist", that kept churning out same official and large family car since 1950s under guise of different "marks" with no improvement in carburetor technology or gas-guzzling engines . In the first case, the generation simply died out and almost did the film genre, while it took the Maruti to lift up the mountain of Indian car industry. Disclaimer: I still like those horror flicks as they still make me smile and I took my first (Indian) license test on that big tank without the turret and guns. :-) So for all their flaws, they are somewhere inside me, in a soft spot.

Anyway, I had shot with the prototype of that GasRam and at the time had practically zero grasp of the concept. But it was quite an experience and more so the information provided patiently by the designer and Brihji at the time cleared several aspects which Brihji has once again explained here. Absorbing all the technical information which was being given out, selecting particular mother lode of information and then relating it to the technicalities of shooting was simply over-whelming at the time.

So I humbly await PH to make the "piston" available for my Pegasus. To PH and to Brihji :cheers:

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Re: My ORION 22cal now fitted with a Gas Ram!

Post by bennedose » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:38 pm

Katana wrote:I suppose the manufacturers just want to play it safe.
Other than precihole no Indian manufacturer is innovating. Everyone makes minor cosmetic changes in the same copy of Diana that is rampant across India.

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