Indians For Guns

I usually like to identify guns used in movies -- sort of like the gun enthusiast's variation on the kids game of spotting different license plates on cars during a trip, I suppose. So for this weekend, we watched two movies:

1. Charlton Heston, Ava Gardner, and David Niven in 55 Days at Peking 1963: The US Marines seemed to be armed with "Long Lees" "MLE" for some reason, and they even had the Russian contingent using Mosin Nagants. The Americans were even seen moving a box of ammo labeled "303"

Why they weren't using Krags, I don't know. There was also an assortment of DA revolvers being used, but I couldn't tell exactly what they were.

2. Arvind Swamy in Roja (Tamil) 1992: The Indian forces were using SLR 1As and mostly what looked to be No. 4 Lee Enfields. I looked hard for the square magazine of the RFI 2A, but didn't see any. The terrorists were using AK 47s and some Stens.

This is just a little game I like to play when I watch movies. It is especially fun when an odd sort of weapon shows up. Does anyone else do this, or am I the odd one here?

In Peking, during the Boxer Rebellion, the U.S. Marines were armed with Lee Straight Pulls in 6mm, not Krags. Probably would be difficult to find enough of them to make the movie authentic. A Lee is a Lee, right?
I believe the RFI 2A was issued to paramilitary forces, not the Indian Army. Someone on this forum will know, I am sure.

timmy,
unfortunately Indian("Bollywood/anywood") movies are not famous for their accurate potrayal of anything.
One reason is the easy availability of commercial replica blankguns as against real guns converted to fire blanks.
Before say the 1990's you never would see a semi-automatic being fired in any Indian movie because of this. Mostly revolvers and bolt-actions. There are a few movies which show actors as soldiers who fire 9mm Sterling carbines, I imagine they used military blanks.

Anand

In Peking, during the Boxer Rebellion, the U.S. Marines were armed with Lee Straight Pulls in 6mm, not Krags. Probably would be difficult to find enough of them to make the movie authentic. A Lee is a Lee, right?

Yes, I suppose you are right!

I believe the RFI 2A was issued to paramilitary forces, not the Indian Army. Someone on this forum will know, I am sure.

In Roja, the film did deal with some military and some non-military security forces.

unfortunately Indian("Bollywood/anywood") movies are not famous for their accurate potrayal of anything.
One reason is the easy availability of commercial replica blankguns as against real guns converted to fire blanks.

All movie makers are the same, I guess! But thanks for the info about blanks -- hadn't considered that. Roja was from 1992, which fits your time frame. Now that I look back on it, it is curious that there I recall no semi-auto pistols in the movie, and even the Colonel used no sidearm at all.

I have seen a FAL SLR with the ability to shoot Auto with Border Security Force team in Punjab. I never knew till then that Indians ever procured a full auto FAL.

Saw a 8 gauge shotgun in the movie Appaloosa would not have known until Ed Harris mentions its gauge in a dialogue. Has any one seen a shotty like this?

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/arch ... 0221c.jpeg

Best

Tim,

That's one of my habits while watching movies.In Indian films it is common to see special design dummy guns limited only by the ingenuity of the maker.Budgetary and availability constraints limit using real or close lookalikes.

ngrewal wrote:I have seen a FAL SLR with the ability to shoot Auto with Border Security Force team in Punjab. I never knew till then that Indians ever procured a full auto FAL.

Saw a 8 gauge shotgun in the movie Appaloosa would not have known until Ed Harris mentions its gauge in a dialogue. Has any one seen a shotty like this?

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/arch ... 0221c.jpeg

Best

Re the auto-FALs,When I was doing Army Attachment with 4 Assam Regiment which saw action in Sri Lanka,I was told by the armourer that quite a few of them were unofficially converted into autos by filing away the selectors. I do not know how true is that. But, once they were back into India, they were reconverted into semis.

Navi, I saw the film.Wondered why with such a great cast, they created such a weak film.


Check these pics from an auction we visited on an earlier date and posted on IFG.

(http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 40&start=0)

This is an 8 bore hammer gun by Midland gun Co of Birmingham.36" nitro barrels, 7/8 & Fullchokes.3.25" chambers.Damascus barrels and nitro proved.Superbly figured stock




Jones rotatory under lever.




Best-
Vikram

it is common to see special design dummy guns limited only by the ingenuity of the maker.Budgetary and availability constraints limit using real or close lookalikes.

Ah! This is making a lot of sense! I noted that, in one shot, a terrorist's AK-47 looked odd. It was as if it was too fat. I chalked it up to the camera and that it may have stretched the aspect ratio, but I'll bet it was a mock up. I also noted that during the initial gun battle, there seemed to be excessive smoke and some sparks from firing the weapons -- the blanks, no doubt.

BTW, interesting 8 gauge, thanks for the pics!

I have seen a FAL SLR with the ability to shoot Auto with Border Security Force team in Punjab. I never knew till then that Indians ever procured a full auto FAL.

When my father was staioned in Mumbai (at the time, it was still Bombay to us), I saw a Gurkha sentry at NavyNagar with a full auto FAL SLR. The rifle was almost as tall as he was
No idea what a Gurkha in full kit was doing at NavyNagar but I think it was by the S.N.O.B. housing area.

In a movie on Mahatma Gandhi in which he is shot in the end, they have shown mauser pistol.
I don't remember the name of the movie correctly but the actor was Kamal Hassan and I think the name of the movie is "Hey Ram".

Actually we do have quite a few original FN FALS in our central unventory. Rather than the army, you tend to see them more with the BSF and CRPF. I have no idea why and when these were procured.... but they are damn good guns. Infact the state IRBns get a lot of refurbished ex-Military and CPO inventory under the so called Modernization Scheme... I was pleasantly surprised to see a few old FALs in Nagaland IRB hands...

With regard to the SLR full-auto mods, more lkely they were SLR 1C rifles ripped out from our APCs.... we fitted quite a few of our BMPs and similar vehicles with SLR 1Cs as 'port firing weapons' ... these rifles are full auto anyway.

However full-auto modification of the standard SLR1A is a quick half and hour job involving mostly careful filing... I can say that because I did one as a demo for our local police brass some years back. As a result, I think the modification would be of dubious value in our standard RFI SLR1A, the rate of fire was fearsome, not to mention involving very violent functioning of moving parts. I should think, on sustained usage, the IOF rifle would probably beat itself to pieces. The metallurgy of the barrel...and most of the guns' build typically reflects the establishment's "just about" adequate mentality. The barrel, and in particular, the chamber area of the receiver got bisteringly hot with just one magazine fired over about 45 seconds in 4-5 rounds bursts. Blisteringly hot meaning hot enough to convert finger tamped saliva on the chamber area into steam with a violent hiss, froth and steam. Now that kind of heat is not healthy to have 3/4 of an inch away from a magazine full of m80s right? No doubt with sustained usage and that quality of metal, it would probably shoot its rifling out pretty quick. Controlability with respect to muzzle climb can be described in negative superlatives. The first three test rounds fired delivered the third round about 20 feet above the figure 11 target at 25 feet. One would need to hold it pretty securely and lean forward very awkwardly to lessen the climb.

..anyway here i am going hoplessly off topic... apologies!!

There are 2 full auto versions of the FAL in India.One is a heavy barrel version with a folding bipod that also doubles as the handguard and uses a longer magazine than the SLR.I have seen these only with the CRPF.The other is a Belgium made version with black plastic furniture and a fixed cocking knob as opposed to the folding lever of the SLR.There are quite a few of them with the Punjab Police.Both are in 7.62.

Vikram

Thanks for the pictures

cc, xl and winnie thanks for clarifying the auto FAL and another interesting gun was POF G3 with Punjab Police CATs.

Vineet you are correct in Hey Ram there are two original pistols a Walther P 38 and Mauser C 96 broom handle.

best

I also like the movie "Zulu".
For a while, I seriously thought about picking up one of the ex-Nepali Martini Henrys that had showed up on the US market during the last few years.


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I love Zulu, and have always wanted a Martini Henry. Those "Long tailed" Nepalese M-Hs looked very nice to me as well.

The movie is only quasi-factual, but as a kid it was a huge adventure to watch and the enjoyment of it has never left me.

I think an M-H in .303 (an occasional barrel surfaces every now and then) would be a great addition!

I'm going OT again...

winnie , I suppose Im being a little too purist ...but it would be somewhat incorrect to say "Belgian made Version" of a FAL, since the Belgian FAL is the original and all others would more correctly be versions... couldn't resist that one....sorry!

Hi ngrewal...POF G3s are pretty common around the country...mostly in those states that shared east or west Pakistan borders... not to forget Myanmaar this side. Often they are pressed into service with the beleagured police forces. Had fun with a pair of them some years back at the local police range.

regards,
cc