Indians For Guns

So found this while looking for something else and knew I had to share with the folks here on IFG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_gun

Wow!

A dream gun....mouth watering.....

What an awesome piece of artillery
Briha

This is beautiful...amazing work..

Beautiful. But only for those who will stand and blaze away. I imagine this would be heavy and unwieldy too. Plus more moving parts, hence more things to go wrong

Safarigent wrote:Beautiful. But only for those who will stand and blaze away. I imagine this would be heavy and unwieldy too. Plus more moving parts, hence more things to go wrong

No. Has nothing to do about "blazing away". But for the fellow restricted to one gun, or the fellow who wants one gun he is thoroughly familiar with for all his shooting. Or, who encounters both fowl and game while hunting.

Hi TwoRivers
I read what you wrote. The following thoughts crop up and i would like it if you could give me your responses to them.
For the fellow restricted to one gun, will he be able to afford an expensive firearm like a vierling? I mean, one would be limited to one firearm from paucity of funds. What other realistic scenario would force a guy to use only one gun? Especially one as expensive as these?
For the fellow who wants to be thoroughly familiar with one gun for all his needs, does the need stop at 4 barrels? What about a heavy calibre for dangerous game? Thin skinned and thick skinned. Maybe a 20 ga and a 12/10 ga for upland and waterfowl game. I know i am stretching it, but only to elucidate my point.
People designed cape guns earlier(if memory serves right with one barrel smooth and one rifled) to be prepared for everything which came their way. Similarly the various paradox guns/colindians etc
Why did these all fall out of favour?
Plus what about the weight of that big heavy gun? I also wonder how easily they would swing? Ease of swing being a funtion of balance, one would still be swinging the gun like a drunk monkey after carrying it for extended periods of time, especially come inclement weather.
Plus all the various ammo you will have to carry on your person
That can be a recipe for a lot of trouble.

Safarigent,

Drillings and Vierlings are mostly a Teutonic thing.One is to hardly encounter dangerous game in Germany or Austria. They are meant for opportunistic shooting/hunting, feathered or furry.While weight is a consideration, they are not too heavy and one is not expected to carry them all day long like one does on an African safari.There are DG calibre offerings but that is more an exercise at ingenuity and novelty than practicality(IMO).

The regular drillings or vierlings are not a lot more heavier than , say, a clay gun. Check this rifle, for example. Made by the same maker, Franzoj, and very similar to the one posted here.Chambered in the 9.3X74R, etc, and still weighs under 8lb. Hardly heavier than a modern O/U. Actually less than the weight of a Beretta DT-11!People do use slings to carry them.

http://www.shooting.org/Guns/Rifles/Joh ... lled_rifle

I agree that handling in terms of wing shooting is compromised, but the gun itself is a useful marriage of differences; so that is to be expected.

Re various ammo, difficult to mix-up rifle and shotgun cartridges.

Ultimately, regular drillings and vierlings are made with a specific use and context in mind.I do think they serve that purpose well. Not all of them cost as much or as ornately made as this Franzoj creation.


Best-
Vikram

I confess, this gun is quite a tour de force, and very nice! Thanks for sharing, Conty!

Safarigent:

Safarigent wrote:The following thoughts crop up and i would like it if you could give me your responses to them. For the fellow restricted to one gun, will he be able to afford an expensive firearm like a vierling? I mean, one would be limited to one firearm from paucity of funds. What other realistic scenario would force a guy to use only one gun? Especially one as expensive as these?

Vikram has hit the nail on the head here:

Vikram wrote:Drillings and Vierlings are mostly a Teutonic thing.

I would like to add to Vikram's explanation, that you must consider the ways of the people who use and make such things. For instance, why do we need a bird that comes out to sing and dancers that dance to tell the time? In the field of firearms, look at the things they make, like snap-up cheek pieces and the quick-detach scope on this thing. I had an old German friend years back (he passed away years ago) and he would always tell me, "Tim, the Germans are good for making toys and weapons." Add to this, the gun is a part of their whole hunting religion. A host of customs must be observed by the proper German hunter, such as shooting the game when it is in the proper position and placing a sprig of evergreen in its mouth afterwards.

The whole business of Germans, hunting, and guns is something you are best off either getting into or passing. I'm sure it would be a fun, if somewhat confusing activity, to go on a German hunt. Maybe hunting and guns wouldn't be as big of a part of this as you might expect, but to try to find logic in it would be like trying to figure out the obscure logic to the cultural practices of other cultures.

BTW, when you'e in Mexico, swish a little bit of your pulque out of your glass and let it spill on the floor; that's for the gods.

A lot of Germans came over to America. I reckon that's the origin of silly customs like "Buckhorn" rear sights. Over here, there is also a segment of the gun community that contemplates spending oodles of money on just one gun that can do it all, and there's no limitation on the number of guns one can have. I suppose that it's like the rationale for mountain climbing: they are on the quest because the challenge is there.

Tim, Vikram has made the points I was going to make. The "one gun" can be due to legal restrictions, not means. Hunting in Germany cannot be done on the cheap, as you have to lease the hunting rights from the landowner, provide crop damage insurance, and follow a management plan set by the forestry department. A Vierling was never a trade gun, and was always expensive, but no more so than a shotgun and two rifles of equal quality. Dangerous game was never in the picture, tough wild boar may be considered dangerous by some. I can think of a place or two I have hunted where a Vierling would have been nice to have.
Vierlinge were made by several of the larger makers as well, in several different design. Franzoj caters to the carriage trade.

There were times when gun ownership in Germany was unrestricted, at other times, as of now, very much so. As to "buckhorn" rear sights, they seem a purely American invention. I have never seen the like on any Austrian or German gun. Any European gun, for that matter.

Holding your shot until it can be placed properly, in order to kill quickly and prevent excessive meat damage, rather than taking a gut shot, does not seem an outlandish custom to me. The "last meal" or drink, is ancient custom to many hunting cultures. It honors the game and acknowledges the taking of a life.

I am still not convinced. Its just a lot of pain for not all that much gain. Carrying ammo in various pockets and keeping in mind whats where. Compromising on its handling. Opportunistic shooting.... For that one aim, i would not be willing to compromise on other factors. Respecting other peoples traditions doesnt mean you have to agree with them whole heartedly. I am sure you'll agree with that? Plus how do you manage all those barrels regulating to the same point of aim or thereabout? And if you somehow do get them in the same vertical plane remembering which barrel regulates how high or low from the Point of aim is an exercise again fraught with possibilities for mistakes.
Not for me.. And apparently, not for a lot of people. Would be seeing a lot more of these otherwise... Guess the teutons like them more. Do they have a lot of mixed hunting there?

Hi Safarigent,

I respect your views...at the same time I am reminded of the poet John Keats

A thing of beauty is a joy for ever:
Its loveliness increases; it will never
Pass into nothingness; but still will keep
A bower quiet for us, and a sleep
Full of sweet dreams, and health, and quiet breathing.
Therefore, on every morrow, are we wreathing
A flowery band to bind us to the earth,
Spite of despondence, of the inhuman dearth
Of noble natures, of the gloomy days,
Of all the unhealthy and o'er-darkened ways
Made for our searching: yes, in spite of all,
Some shape of beauty moves away the pall
From our dark spirits. Such the sun, the moon,
Trees old, and young, sprouting a shady boon
For simple sheep; and such are daffodils
With the green world they live in; and clear rills
That for themselves a cooling covert make
'Gainst the hot season; the mid-forest brake,
Rich with a sprinkling of fair musk-rose blooms:
And such too is the grandeur of the dooms
We have imagined for the mighty dead;
All lovely tales that we have heard or read:
An endless fountain of immortal drink,
Pouring unto us from the heaven's brink.

Nor do we merely feel these essences
For one short hour; no, even as the trees
That whisper round a temple become soon
Dear as the temple's self, so does the moon,
The passion poesy, glories infinite,
Haunt us till they become a cheering light
Unto our souls, and bound to us so fast
That, whether there be shine or gloom o'ercast,
They always must be with us, or we die.

Therefore, 'tis with full happiness that I
Will trace the story of Endymion.
The very music of the name has gone
Into my being, and each pleasant scene
Is growing fresh before me as the green
Of our own valleys: so I will begin
Now while I cannot hear the city's din;
Now while the early budders are just new,
And run in mazes of the youngest hue
About old forests; while the willow trails
Its delicate amber; and the dairy pails
Bring home increase of milk. And, as the year
Grows lush in juicy stalks, I'll smoothly steer
My little boat, for many quiet hours,
With streams that deepen freshly into bowers.
Many and many a verse I hope to write,
Before the daisies, vermeil rimmed and white,
Hide in deep herbage; and ere yet the bees
Hum about globes of clover and sweet peas,
I must be near the middle of my story.
O may no wintry season, bare and hoary,
See it half finished: but let Autumn bold,
With universal tinge of sober gold,
Be all about me when I make an end!
And now at once, adventuresome, I send
My herald thought into a wilderness:
There let its trumpet blow, and quickly dress
My uncertain path with green, that I may speed
Easily onward, thorough flowers and weed.

Hello
No one said it isnt a thing of beauty. I love the workmanship on it. Its just that in my eyes, it isnt all that its made out to be. I might change my opinion if i ever needed to use one regularly, but otherwise its a mighty fine thing to behold.

Safarigent wrote:Hello
No one said it isnt a thing of beauty. I love the workmanship on it. Its just that in my eyes, it isnt all that its made out to be. I might change my opinion if i ever needed to use one regularly, but otherwise its a mighty fine thing to behold.

What has it been made out to be? It is a compromise. And while more difficult to regulate, it is not that much more difficult to regulate the small-bore withe the two SxS rifle barrels. Still better than carrying a shotgun and two rifles. Not everybody's cup of tea, of course.