Indians For Guns

HI! I saw the press coverage and tv coverage of the recent lal masjid storming by the pak ssb special forces and surprise what weapons is the greatest ally of the US of A using?? 100% SF dudes I saw were having AK series rifles and rocket launcher?? no prizes for guessing that - ruskie rpg's. Now here we have our own SF clamouring for mp5's and travors and what does bush's best friend use when the going gets tough? tried and tested el-cheapo ruskie stuff which actually works better than advertised

That's wierd... the SSG has been fielding quite an impressive array of imports over the past few years. Steyr AUGs, some kind of Beretta tactical shotgun(or was it Benelli?), POF MP5s, souped up M4 Carbines... unless of course these pieces are for propaganda and the SSG is going the NSG way (Bloating to conventional formation size)...!!

This was a backyard op and I dont think they needed all that firepower for a bunch of kids...so, ol faithful kalashnikov?
SUre agree about the reliability factor-no plastic gun can beat the unsurpassed record of the AK series.

In times of trouble you want the most respected and reliable equipment,doesnt get better than the AK's.

Sanjay

Sanjay";p="23466 wrote:In times of trouble you want the most respected and reliable equipment,doesnt get better than the AK's.

Sanjay

Oh yes! being a old war horse i give you all credit and agree in all terms the AK's to Indian Army were all Romanian since they costed only rs 7000/- each without any TOT ( Transfer Of Technology )

guncrazy";p="23609 wrote: Oh yes! being a old war horse i give you all credit and agree in all terms the AK's to Indian Army were all Romanian since they costed only rs 7000/- each without any TOT ( Transfer Of Technology )

AFAIK the AK's cost the government less than US$ 100 per piece... Please refer to the CAG report to the parliament on this... and the AK is without doubt the MOST successful gun of the 20th century, though it does suffer from using the (dated) 7.62x39 cartridge... Was sitting with Spacetraveller and a few others last night and one of the company was a retd. infantry Col. who had served in Kargil... his feedback on the INSAS was clear... the damn thing completely failed in the cold!! And they had to get replacement AK's for the troops to replace it!!

Some of you might be interested to know that the US military is now shifting off the 5.56mm cartridge and moving towards the 6.8mm - the reason... better stopping power... a real concern that has come to the fore time and again in every theatre that the M-16/ M-4 has been used...

Bring on the brickbats...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

guncrazy";p="23609 wrote:Oh yes! being a old war horse i give you all credit and agree in all terms the AK's to Indian Army were all Romanian since they costed only rs 7000/- each without any TOT ( Transfer Of Technology )

HI! Another glaring example of the re-invent the wheel and "self-sufficiency" buffoonery which is being used to loot -rather pillage the country by the politicians and IOFB + DRDO The INSAS costs nearly four times as much to make and is no match for hte AK. Another prime example I read a few days back was that the AKASH surface to air missile programme was being scrapped after sevral years and hundreds of crores trying to re-invent /reverse engineer the wheel and the Israeli military industries barrak missile system is being bought in its place with a initial order for Rs. ten thousand crores already place ! wonder how many are on the gravy train- some eyeties and commies are there for sure

Don't forget the Tejas, the Chinese already have the J-10 out which though may not be the absolute bleeding edge, is not that bad either. We need to open our weapons sector to private industries before it's too late. Sometimes I feel its a conspiracy of sorts with the so called westerm powers and our politicians to prevent India from making weapons of quality and thereby keeping us dependant for years on sometimes sub standard western weapons. If we are not self sufficient in our basic weapons department, how can we sustain an all out war?

Finally a conspiracy theory...the plot thickens . This actually makes one feel hey...what if but our farm bred, free ranging politicians can't think that deep or see beyond their pocket lining.

Dev

I am not worried about the farm bred ones, I am worried bout the ones with the degrees and so called education, there are some if you look carefully

The 'free range buffoons' smuggle people out, the MBA types go for the big bucks via arms deals...

Funnily though, the old (Made in India Ishapore) SMLE has the respect of military gun collectors worldwide.. wonder where when and how our OFB guys lost their touch.

Jonah

jonahpach";p="23778 wrote:Funnily though, the old (Made in India Ishapore) SMLE has the respect of military gun collectors worldwide.. wonder where when and how our OFB guys lost their touch.

Jonah

The folks making the SMLEs retired and replacements were socialist fodder.

Injuries caused by AK series r most severe unlike other weapons while penetrating Ak bullet spilts causing invisible injuries (internal) ones. Injury may look small but in actual internally more damaging.

dsingh";p="24055 wrote:Injuries caused by AK series r most severe unlike other weapons while penetrating Ak bullet spilts causing invisible injuries (internal) ones. Injury may look small but in actual internally more damaging.

Hi dsingh,

This would mostly be true if the bullet has enough tissue to travel through. That being the case the, 5.56mm bullet causes even more disproportionate damage than the 7.62mm AK round. The splitting (Rather deformation and splintering)is an ancillary effect(rather than intentional) of the bullets tendency to tumble when its forward 'equilibrium' is drastically upset- i.e when it transitions from air to tissue. This effect is also not limited to the AK ammo alone. Even the old .303 round behaves similarly provided it travels through enough tissue.

The important factor in all this is the weight of the bullet , its velocity and also the range at which it contacts the target material. The AK bullet in relation to the 5.56mm round is much heavier- this affords it more stability and thus a relatively lesser tendency to be 'disturbed' along its path. The end result is the AK round causes a 'cleaner' for the same amount and volume of tissue as against the 5.56mm round.