(un)realistic prices of fire arms in India.

[Grumpy]

Really ? Then Rs 37,500 for a `de luxe` version isn`t either unreasonable or extraordinary. I`ll bet that if IOF offered a similar finish it would charge at least that.

[Mack The Knife]

No `if` about it Mack The Knife - it`s happened to me.......and it is bl**dy annoying

Aaah! So you were annoyed, were you? How delightful!

That`s the real world and reflects the right to free speech. Here no one is - apparently - allowed the same right.

I think you are missing the point. What happened to you in the real world was nothing short of downright bad manners and that is precisely what one would like to avoid on here. Free speech is all very well but even that has its limits or should we let Shahid in again?

Who was being browbeaten ? One person made one short, reasonable comment and was then browbeaten by several others.

If he was brow beaten, he certainly did not show it.

That, combined with the condoning of humbug by alloying the same matter to be discussed elsewhere is the hypocrisy that I referred to.

Which is precisely why a seperate thread should not refer to the sale topic in question.

Caveat emptor ? `Let the buyer beware` ? Yes, obviously - but let the vendor be aware that he is liable for criticism also. If not then an unequal market exists with protectionism being reserved for vendors only.

Not at all. The buyer is free to ask other members privately or by starting a seperate thread requesting a price check or more information on the product.
However, comments made out of spite, jealousy, ignorance, etc. do affect a sale.

If comment is permitted then all comment should be permitted. The alternatives are to have classified advertising or none at all.

I have no quarrel with the classified advertising bit. That should keep the tyre kickers away, for one.

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

If you are talking about your shotgun then I don`t remember anyone commenting that it was expensive....

Yes, I am refering to my shotgun. Nobody needs to comment as the doubt has already been sown, assuming the person was ignorant about shotgun prices in India.

and I don`t remember you asking Rs 425,000 either

I wasn't selling a mint condition revolver either. Like it or not but handguns do command an exceptionally large premium in India.

Easy solution: If you don`t want anyone commenting adversely then either don`t give them anything to comment adversely on or have classified adverts only.

There are pros and cons to this. Whilst classified advertising would keep unnecessary comments at bay, there are numerous instances where the seller forgets to mention something and this is only remembered when a buyer asks for this information. This is just one example and I am sure I can think of more if I put my mind to it. This is why I would prefer to maintain our current system.

Sure, it is open to abuse by the vendor or someone who just cannot afford the item on sale or someone who just wants to mouth off. The present system, though a bit tedious, protects the interests of both parties - the vendor is spared unnecessary and frivolous comments, whilst the genuine buyer is free to contact other members for further information if he/she is unsure about any aspect of the product.

You are currently offering protected status for all vendors against the interest of the membership.

Don't forget that today's vendor could well be tomorrow's buyer. It may appear that the present system favours the vendor but that is not really the case because the buyer is free to contact other members for advice.

That is the same situation as with American magazines where none will offer genuine criticism of a reviewed product because to do so will entail inevitable loss of advertising revenues.

That is almost a universal practice these days but they have had their wings clipped with the evergrowing popularity of the www.

Mack The Knife

[penpusher]

Mack The Knife Bana Sir,the shotgun is still with you.What has this world come to.Nobody appreciates good work.Did you not show them the gold plated triggers?Perhaps some more gold plating might help.Gold has become cheaper lately.

penpusher

PS-Edit, delete

[Grumpy]

"I think you are missing the point. What happened to you in the real world was nothing short of downright bad manners and that is precisely what one would like to avoid on here. Free speech is all very well but even that has its limits or should we let Shahid in again?"

No, not bad manners. Bad luck maybe. Someone arranged to buy a gun from me and was then told that there was a similar gun at a lesser price elsewhere.

"Free speech is all very well but even that has its limits"

Obviously. In the case of this current matter it appears that saying that a gun is expensive earns one a yellow card. Any more free speech and he`d be banned.

"If he was brow beaten, he certainly did not show it."

`Browbeaten` was Abhijeets choice of word for the vendor having to endure one small comment on the price of the revolver from Guncrazy. If that was browbeating then in comparison Guncrazy was hammered into the ground with a 4x2. As far as certainly not showing that he was browbeaten he probably felt constrained as to what he could say after picking up a yellow card.......and with a mouth full of dirt !

"Which is precisely why a seperate thread should not refer to the sale topic in question."

That I happen to agree with. Starting a separate thread on the extortionate price of firearms in India in the circumstances was ridiculous as we all knew which extortionately priced firearm was being specifically referred to. It also allowed me to express my annoyance at the handling of this matter in TWO locations. I`m taking full advantage of my right of free speech by harping on about this matter even though it might adversely affect the sale of the revolver ( something I distinctly doubt considering those who have asked for further details. ) I really don`t care how much is being asked for the revolver and accept that it might well be the market price in India. My indignation concerns Guncrazy being censured just for commenting on that price.

"However, comments made out of spite, jealousy, ignorance, etc. do affect a sale."

Of course they do. But expressing amazement at the price of the revolver was not a comment made out of spite, jealousy, ignorance, etc - it was a comment. In the circumstances it was quite a reasonable comment.

"I have no quarrel with the classified advertising bit. That should keep the tyre kickers away, for one."

Good. I don`t deny that there are `tyre-kickers` or that they are a pain in the ar*e.

I will concede one thing - there seems to be a cultural difference between my attitude and most of yours - "Shhh - we don`t talk about money". In most of the rest of the world we do. Yes, it`s vulgar but it`s the way of the world nowadays. `Hushing up` money matters allows for a culture of bribery and backhanders - something that I know that you detest Mack The Knife. It is however the other side of the same card.

[Mack The Knife]

Perhaps a reduction in price would help in selling it or alternatively I may just get it rejointed by a pukka machinist and then sell it for even more.

Would love to know what was said in the Post Script.

[penpusher]

Who says Indians are not money minded.Just look at the price of firearms in India.Look at all the expat Indians trying to earn dollars.Grumpy has obviously never dealt with a Marwari business man.

penpusher

[Mack The Knife]

Obviously. In the case of this current matter it appears that saying that a gun is expensive earns one a yellow card.

I am sorry but that is not why he earned himself a yellow card. If you read the first two pages again you will find that he was requested to desist posting anymore on the subject. This was done both publicly and privately.

`Browbeaten` was Abhijeets choice of word for the vendor having to endure one small comment on the price of the revolver from Guncrazy. If that was browbeating then in comparison Guncrazy was hammered into the ground with a 4x2.

Mea culpa!

My indignation concerns Guncrazy being censured just for commenting on that price.

There are numerous times when I want to comment on the price but I don't. It's as simple as that.

Of course they do. But expressing amazement at the price of the revolver was not a comment made out of spite, jealousy, ignorance, etc - it was a comment. In the circumstances it was quite a reasonable comment.

Reasonable or not, it was uncalled for and especially since he had been requested to refrain from any further comment on the matter.

I will concede one thing - there seems to be a cultural difference between my attitude and most of yours - "Shhh - we don`t talk about money". In most of the rest of the world we do.

You couldn't be more wrong. Indians are far from bashful when it comes to money. Infact they go to the other extreme, which really gets my goat.

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

"Who says Indians are not money minded".

No-one.

Mack The Knife I`m beginning to think that you are pi**ed off with someone regarding comments made about your shotgun............ Might I point out that the person concerned wasn`t/isn`t Guncrazy.
As regards the general subject of advertising on IFG you may take it that I actually don`t give a damn BUT insofar as it caused Guncrazy to earn a yellow card just for expressing amazement at the price of a revolver then I`ll continue the matter because the response was unreasonable and unjust.

[penpusher]

Check up your 'For sale' post again.

penpusher

[Mack The Knife]

Mack The Knife I`m beginning to think that you are pi**ed off with someone regarding comments made about your shotgun............

Not in the least. The comment was most probably made in jest.

Might I point out that the person concerned wasn`t/isn`t Guncrazy.

I am well aware of that. Don't bother looking up the thread as I have edited the comment.

As regards the general subject of advertising on IFG you may take it that I actually don`t give a damn BUT insofar as it caused Guncrazy to earn a yellow card just for expressing amazement at the price of a revolver then I`ll continue the matter because the response was unreasonable and unjust.

By all means do but first have another look at the posts - he wasn't carded for making just the one comment regarding the price. If we started using that as a yardstick, we will end up carding quite a few, including one particular moderator.

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

Check up your 'For sale' post again.

penpusher

Which one?

Just had another look at the shotgun sale thread but the bulb refuses to light up.

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

" I am sorry but that is not why he earned himself a yellow card. If you read the first two pages again you will find that he was requested to desist posting anymore on the subject. This was done both publicly and privately."

I`ve just checked and Asif told Guncrazy to shut up. He then made a response and was yellow carded. The response he made was not obnoxious/rude/insulting just a response. On that basis you might as well yellow card me for daring to disagree with the management consensus on the matter. That yellow card was a heavy handed response. That he was contacted via PM is irrelevent as what is said in private is another matter - and I`m not condoning any bad behaviour/language made via PM. Abuse the system by chucking yellow cards about willy nilly and you might as well agree that this is a private club just for the benefit of the moderators. Sometimes you have to accept that there are other opinions even if you disagree with them or find them obnoxious.

[Mack The Knife]

Asif's first post to Guncrazy:

Guncrazy,
Suggest you start a different post to moan about prevailing gun prices
Right now, as I see it, this is a 'for sale post', not 'please comment on gun prices in india ' post would appreciate if we respect it for what it is.
Axx


Asif's second post on the subject so far:

guncrazy,
the accepted way would be to PM, its considered polite.Like I told you politely, earlier...enjoy your yellow card.
Axx

Actually, I don't think there was a PM. Misunderstanding on my part.

Yep, it's quite possible Asif was having a bad day and dished out a yellow a bit too fast or there could be another reason.

In hindsight, I feel this subject should have been handled in the moderators forum.

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

Useful thing, hindsight. I feel that I could have handled this matter better but have to admit to being `all-fired-up` because of what I perceive as an injustice. The problem being that once I get hold of a matter, just like a dog with a bone, I won`t let go.