(un)realistic prices of fire arms in India.

[Grumpy]

"I guess the only real option for someone looking for a relatively affordable firearm is to buy Indian made products - they do work, even if they are not as pretty..."

A very good point Abhijeet. Treat IOF products as if they were secondhand and reject any that don`t meet an acceptable standard. If everyone did that then IOF would find themselves with a pile of returned, rejected, cr*p......which might encourage them to improve their quality control.
As far as IOF products not looking pretty is concerned then there is a solution - send it to Mack The Knife. I`ve just seen photographs of his IOF .22 LR rifle and that is pretty by any criteria you might care to use. Save a pile of cash by buying IOF and then spend a little of what you saved by beautifying it. It makes economic sense because Mack The Knifes rifle is worth more than any new, out of the box, IOF.

[penpusher]

I am with Grumpy on this.Sometimes,the price quoted may stem from ignorance of the prevailing market rate.At the very least,we should be able to tell the member selling something, as to what the price for it should be.

It's not the person selling alone whom we should be worried about.After all there is another member who would be buying .He/she at a later stage may feel cheated on finding out that he has paid more than what he would get for the firearm in the market.

Attacking the member selling something needs to be censured,however telling somebody that his product is not worth the asking price,should be ok.

penpusher

[penpusher]

Grumpy,

Indians have been made to believe that the prices quoted are the 'real' prices for these sort of firearm.So a Webley .32 revolver going for 1,90,000/- to 2,60,000/-, a brand new S&W .32 (the same sort as being sold here) for 3,25,000/-,a Charter Arms .32 for 2,60,000/-, is considered to be the 'prevailing' price.Dealers issue a receipt for only 15-20,000/- for the firearms purchased at these prices.So the buyer loses due to high prices and the govt. also loses in terms of revenue lost.The only person making money is the dealer.

Now if people decide not buy from the IOF and the dealers,where do they go?

The high price of firearms in India defeats the very purpose of the Arms Act,which was to ENABLE a law abiding citizen of the country to acquire a firearm for a legitimate purpose.


penpusher

[Sujay]

Where is this post


That post was moved to a new thread...

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=2065

[Mack The Knife]

As far as IOF products not looking pretty is concerned then there is a solution - send it to Mack The Knife. I`ve just seen photographs of his IOF .22 LR rifle and that is pretty by any criteria you might care to use. Save a pile of cash by buying IOF and then spend a little of what you saved by beautifying it. It makes economic sense because Mack The Knifes rifle is worth more than any new, out of the box, IOF.

(Off Topic)

Oooh...I am flattered, though I still don't see why you think it's so special. How much do you think I should be charging the punters? Just the arm or the leg as well?

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

You can charge what you like for the service Mack The Knife.........and you`re allowed to advertise on IFG. If your charges are rip-off though I won`t be able to say so....except that I may mention in passing on this thread that Indian gunsmiths charges seem to be a trifle expensive. ( )
It`s an interesting question isn`t it - how much is beauty worth ? If I was in the market for an IOF .22 LR how much more would I pay for a `Bana-ised` version ? 10% ? Definitely. 15% ? Yes. 20 %.......yup. 25% ?......Probably. 50% ? Definitely not. I reckon it must be about 25-30%. Would that be a worthwhile rate of pay ?

[Mack The Knife]

If I was in the market for an IOF .22 LR how much more would I pay for a `Bana-ised` version ? 10% ? Definitely. 15% ? Yes. 20 %.......yup. 25% ?......Probably. 50% ? Definitely not. I reckon it must be about 25-30%.

THUD!

No need to be alarmed, that was just me falling down to earth.

[Sujay]

As it is, those with plenty of disposable income have set the prices by happily paying stupidly high amounts and making some sort of status symbol out of gun ownership.

I do not know how but you are very close. Very few people bother to investigate the real price; even by Indian standards. After the gun is brought, its price is passed around instead of its condition etc. A former member ( banned) took particularly pride in these.


IOF prices are high......but nothing like as high as imported pistols. Maybe they`ve allowed for their poor quality and have set their prices quite realistically in the current market.

IOF prices are rip off compared to imported ones if you compare their performance. Rather than setting the prices realistically, their pricing policies openly acknowledge extortion. They describe it in words like " maximum possible".

What chance do you think there is that the ban on imports will be repealed ? Damn all I would say

Several years ago, the NDA Govt was mulling over lifting the ban. Most vehement protests came from IOF ( sorry but cannot provide any link ). There has been some positive developments recently but nothing to rectify the situation. Let's hope for the best !

- Those people tend to have much more influence on legislators than the ordinary gun fan. The IOF will exert all their influence against a change in the law because in a competitive market they will lose ALL their `domestic` ( as opposed to military ) sales.

Not always as there are some other players as well. A recent example is when Indian Govt was compelled to abolish the additional customs duty on imported wine and spirits primarily after pushed by EU and US Govt which was responsible for their prohibitive price. This in spite of the pressure exerted by the domestic liquor lobby.

[penpusher]

About Rs.5000-6000/- is what Mack The Knife can comfortably charge per rifle.

penpusher

[Sujay]

THUD!

No need to be alarmed, that was just me falling down to earth.

Of course 25% value of all IOF 0.22 LRs sold in a year is a decent sum !

Start upgrading your wishlist

[Grumpy]

"About Rs.5000-6000/- is what Mack The Knife can comfortably charge per rifle."

What`s that as the percentage of a new rifle ?

Think of it as the `de luxe` IOF .22 . How much is it worth to have a good looking rifle, one that you can take pride in ? Rs. 6,000 is about 70 quid - BARGAIN !

[Grumpy]

If people will pay Rs 425,000 for a revolver that is actually worth Rs 8,500 then they will easily pay Rs 6,000 extra for a rifle that looks a heck of a lot better than the standard version......and a lot more.

[Mack The Knife]

Grumpy,couldnt agree more,I think the general feeling in the house seems to be that if the price is commented/speculated upon then the seller might not get what he is looking for,which is BS.

BS? Would you like to bet on that?

All it takes is just one smart@rse remark to kill a sale, e.g. "Mack The Knife, may I call you Mr. 50%?"

The person making the remark did not have to sit in the hot summer sun from morning to night working on the gun for one whole month, otherwise he may well have kept his trap shut. Considering the gun hasn't yet sold, should I tell this particular person to cough up the 50% for the damage caused?

Mack The Knife

[penpusher]

New IOF .22 is about 30,000/-

penpusher

[Grumpy]

So are you declaring an interest Mack The Knife ? You worked on this revolver for a whole month in the summer sun ?
If you are talking about your shotgun then I don`t remember anyone commenting that it was expensive...........and I don`t remember you asking Rs 425,000 either.
Easy solution: If you don`t want anyone commenting adversely then either don`t give them anything to comment adversely on or have classified adverts only.
You are currently offering protected status for all vendors against the interest of the membership. That is the same situation as with American magazines where none will offer genuine criticism of a reviewed product because to do so will entail inevitable loss of advertising revenues. It means that they do a dis-service to their readers because a `review` isn`t a review but yet more advertising. Either you disassociate IFG from advertising by having classified only ads or you allow fair - reasonable - comment.