The Case for Best Guns in India

[peterdk]

winnie_the _pooh

the sad truth is that the amount of money required to set this right is not even close to 10 mill $, i have several european investors ready to come in and help set up the production, now three of these investors allready are very successfull gunmakers in europe. problem is that the gunmakers in india would have to come up with something like 50-70K euro's to get this up and running, but they see no reason to do this as the indian people still buy their saturday night specials and their scrap iron hocky sticks for 60 K rupee's when the cost of producing these firearms(well they do fire sometimes ) is no more than 3-5 K rupees, so the profit is enormus and with no competition it will not change untill the laws change, once this happens the only gunmakers left standing up will be those that made changes, before the laws change, as the rest will be stuck with their product forever.

the only thing i have head so far is the same sad song:

but our barrels are made of SPECIAL strong alloy

these guys really dont know their ass from a opium day dream, when it comes to gunmaking.

i do so hope that you will be allowed to import, or get just one gunmaker that is not acting like a carpet sales gypsy, because that will change everything, if the rest did not follow suit, he would rule the indian gun sales overnight

a bit angry sounding , but i really feel sad on your guy's behalf, as i hate and detest thieves especially when they used my job title to hide behind. i have spend many years of my life to exell in what i do, and to see other people claiming to be something they are not really makes my blood boil.

rant over

peter

[goodboy_mentor]

problem is that the gunmakers in india would have to come up with something like 50-70K euro's to get this up and running, but they see no reason to do this as the indian people still buy their saturday night specials and their scrap iron hocky sticks for 60 K rupee's when the cost of producing these firearms(well they do fire sometimes ) is no more than 3-5 K rupees,

Yes the cost of these firearms is around 3-5 K rupees and Indians buy them for around 25-60K rupees because they have no choice. The market is "controlled" by government. Even the government owned Indian Ordnance Factory is fleecing the customers. Read the prices of civilian firearms on their website and compare with international market prices: http://ofbindia.nic.in/index.php?wh=Spo ... ms&lang=en

Buyers for a gun priced at 50-70K Euros would be very few in India. Since most of the Indian middle class people usually earn around 300,000 to 400,000 rupees a year, most of the buyers would not be willing to pay more than 100,000 rupees.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Peter,

50to 70,000 Euros is be peanuts in today's day and age if some one wants to start a business.Sad indeed.

Goodboy,

Peter is talking about the cost of setting up business and not the price of the shotguns.

[Bespoke]

Peter,
I think what Captain Sharma said is not completely false there used to be some very good gunsmiths in India but most of them are really old or are no more.
I agree when it comes to new Indian guns quality cannot be poorer and at same time you cannot think all the guns coming out of India are in bad shape majority of them are but not at all.

Winnie,

Most of people believe that there are very few guns left to start with there has always been very few best guns and nit every double rifle or a British gun doesn’t qualify being a best gun there are still plenty of them around in gun cabinets of discerning gentlemen collectors.

The reason that most of them are not seen in ordinary gun shops is because they are never able to lay their hands across those kinds of guns they are picked up by handful of exporters in no time put behind a locked closet and exported within six months of purchase
.
The question regarding ammunition is not a relevant argument in this scenario as I mentioned in my first post these are works of art and should not be judged by their utility this being said there is ammunition available for a price for almost all the big bore calibers if the buyer is willing to pay the price .The best guns are not everyone’s cup of tea and also one should remember that The best guns are not only double rifles but majority of them are shotguns in easily available in 12 bore.
I agree some people ask for absurd prices for their guns and are not worth it at all we have seen quite a few examples on the forum but there are a lot of fair deals out there that is the reason that the business of exporting guns is money mint for exporters.

These guns should not be exported as you might think but they should be looked after. They are a treat and items of great interest to people like me and most of the enthusiasts and collectors I know how to look after best guns regardless of their utility and are proud owners.

[peterdk]

bespoke

you know, you are one of the few, and i applaude you for that, i am painting with a very large brush here, and do hope that you understand that some of my comments are made tounge in cheek to get a bit of an reaction.

if most people were like you, i myself would love an export limitation so you could hold on to the guns, but not to long ago i saw a H&H royal 375 flanged that someone had tried to convert to a 375 H&H belted needless to say the barrel set was destroyed and the rifle can now only function as a wall hanger, and for what ?
because the correct ammunition was not readily at hand.

i think a solution to this could be export permits for guns to go out to be repaired and maintained in london at the shops where there is still craftsmen to do it right, and then send back to their rightfull owners in india, but even that is hard to obtain now.

i do hope that all your hard work will come to fruitation in the near future, as you surely deserve it.

best

peter

[winnie_the_pooh]

Bespoke,

You admire your guns I shoot mine.Different strokes for different folks.Lets leave it at that.

[Bespoke]

Peter,

Thank you for your kind words. I am all for exporting guns for purpose of repair and refurbishing but sales should be banned until we are allowed to import.

Winnie,

I am not sure what gave you the idea that I don’t shoot my guns but as you said let’s leave it at that.

[Vikram]

OT.

Bespoke,

Your last post makes me ask,if you have any Best guns in your possession, could you please share their pictures with us? Would be nice.Thank you.


Best-
Vikram

[Bespoke]

Vikram,

I am in process of building up my collection.I will post picture when I can.I have acquired a 12 bore Westley Richards Droplock few days ago will post pictures soon.

[Vikram]

That would be lovely,Bespoke.A WR-Droplock sounds terrific.Lovely guns.Look forward to it.


Best-
Vikram

[prashantsingh]

Vikram,

I am in process of building up my collection.I will post picture when I can.I have acquired a 12 bore Westley Richards Droplock few days ago will post pictures soon.

That explains why I did not receive your mail .
Bespoke has a very important point here.
Why is our Govt. allowing Export of these Guns? When Import of these (or any other for that matter) comes under "Restricted items of trade" .

[Bespoke]

Vikram,

I will post the pictures as soon as I can since the gun is not in my possession yet due to pending legal formalities. I have had opportunity to lay my hands on some Best guns from leading gunmakers in past but unfortunately had to let them go so I am looking forward to start up again.

Prashant,

I am sorry I should have mentioned it might take some time for the reason mentioned above.

[prashantsingh]

peterdk
I agree with you to a certain extent. There is a reason for what you have mentioned.
I am sure before the 1970's the Guns and Rifles which were exported were in a much better condition than what are being exported today (i.e. after more than 40 years). The reason for the "Best Guns" being treated that way is simply because before the 1970's India was a favourite "Shikar" (hunting) destination and a number of hunters from abroad and in India brought with them these "Best Guns".
After hunting was banned in India , the "karigars" (guys) who worked on these guns were out of job. Many changed their profession to make both ends meet.What use would these "Best Guns" serve in such a scenario. Shoot paper targets with them. Surely not.
The art of Taxidermy also died with a ban on Shikar in India. Recently I met a gentleman who is a shoe exporter today and whose family was a well known name in Taxidermy in the olden days.

[z375]

Bespoke, you shouldn't have let that 20-gauge go! and just for the record it was a cased Holland & Holland Royal Hammerless 20-gauge set in condition that had to be seen to believed, came with spare paradox barrels, hand-detachable sidelocks, incredible floral scroll engraving with gold inlays and game scenes on the locks, (i think the birds were some species of snipe) silver escutcheon with someone's initials on it, leather-covered recoil pad et all.. sadly enough after it was sold a few months passed and it surprisingly turned up on a top U.K. auction house's website!

Bespoke, I dont know you get sound sleep at night after getting rid of that 20

[Bespoke]

z375,

I regret selling that 20 bore but I had to then btw you are confusing it with Westley Richards which was in U.K auction house the 20 bore was in U.S.

I am looking forward to your visit again and hopefully will have few beauties to show you.