(un)realistic prices of fire arms in India.

[penpusher]

8.5 lakhs That should get you a Colt Python .357 mag, an Arminius .32 and an IOF .32 pistol/revolver even by the crazy Indian prices.

penpusher

[Grumpy]

Of course Guncrazy is right that the price of many firearms in India is extortionate but the fault lies with the purchasers. If potential buyers told vendors to shove their extreme prices where the sun don`t shine prices would soon become much more realistic. As it is, those with plenty of disposable income have set the prices by happily paying stupidly high amounts and making some sort of status symbol out of gun ownership.
I`m not surprised that Guncrazy felt compelled to comment on the asking price of that S&W .32 revolver - INR425,000 I make around £5,000......or $10,000......or about FIFTY times what the gun is worth in the real world !
IOF prices are high......but nothing like as high as imported pistols. Maybe they`ve allowed for their poor quality and have set their prices quite realistically in the current market.
What chance do you think there is that the ban on imports will be repealed ? Damn all I would say - those that are allowed to import firearms and those that have invested stupid money in firearms have a vested interest in the prices staying high - otherwise their expensive status symbols will very soon become neither expensive or status symbols. Those people tend to have much more influence on legislators than the ordinary gun fan. The IOF will exert all their influence against a change in the law because in a competitive market they will lose ALL their `domestic` ( as opposed to military ) sales.

[Grumpy]

I seem to detect a certain amount of hypocrisy running through this thread: It is, apparently, considered `bad form` to comment on the price ( or, presumably, the quality ? ) of items being sold but that is at odds with the nature of this website - isn`t this a discussion forum ? It`s been suggested that a vendor has the right to ask any price that he - or she - likes which is fair comment but members should then have the equivalent right to comment on that price - or anything else. If it isn`t bad form to ask an extortionate price for a gun then it cannot be bad form to comment on that price.
A thread on the subject of gun prices in India has been started elsewhere where members may discuss this matter.......and I have mentioned this very expensive S&W .32 - quite legitimately. This has to be total humbug.
If the price - or quality - of guns advertised here cannot be discussed ( let alone criticised ) than all advertising should be in classified form with each topic ( advertisement ) locked.

[Mack The Knife]

Grumpy,

If someone wants a price / quality check, they can ask in the relevant or General Ramblings forum (without making a direct reference to the concerned sale) or privately via PM, e-mail, etc.

The selling price is the seller's prerogative and nobody elses business.

If you were a gunshop owner and were selling a gun to someone, would you like it if someone walks in and tells the potential buyer that he/she can get a similar gun for a lesser amount at another shop?

Mack The Knife

[Risala]

Grumpy,couldnt agree more,I think the general feeling in the house seems to be that if the price is commented/speculated upon then the seller might not get what he is looking for,which is BS.

I think perhaps we should have a relook,at posting prices and let the buyer and seller discuss the same off line.

Sanjay

[marksman]

Well, I think I know why the prices are escalating in India or atleast in Mumbai. When one approaches a dealer to sell a fire arm, the dealer suggests he should keep it with him for sale at the owners asking price. No investment on the dealers part, except the space the fire arm occupies. A highly exegerated price is quoted when ever someone shows interest in the piece. He can always bargain and settle for little less as it's no skin of his nose and yet seeks out a huge margin of profit without investment. To top it, the price moves up to that particular amount in case some rich idiot decides to pay it anyways. The word spreads amongst dealers and.......VOILA. an 8.5 lac revolver.
Marksman .

[Sujay]

HI! if you folx think the price of guns and ammo is expensive in India - then chk this little baby out a taser shotgun shell for $99 a pop details and link below . there is a pic on the link page if u want to take a dekko:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/10/taser_shotgun/

How is this relevant to the topic being discussed ?

[[email protected]]

Dear Members, hi.

I know I have posted 2 of my 3 weapons for sale in IFG at prices which are high without a doubt. One huge reason for me to be willing to part with my hand guns is the extremely poor quality of ammunition I am forced to use in India. My guns are of excellent make & exceptional quality but I have had to deal with unrealistic and unholy experiences with the Indian made ammo for my .22 & .32s'.

A mis-fired 'click' is not half as awful as discovering that the gun went off but the bullet went only as far the middle of the 4" barrel & got stuck. But that this has happened takes a while to register in my head at that moment. So to spare my beautiful weapons any further ignominious suffering I decided to sell them. The person who can pay the price I've asked for is likely to take that much more care of the guns. (By getting hold of genuine ammo for starters, somehow.)

My guns are not status symbols for me as I do not flash them around. They are
my childhood dreams come true & I am thrilled to own them as such. Thanks!!

[mundaire]

Grumps/ Sanjay,

It is not about the seller getting what price he is asking for - it's simply about allowing someone to offer what he wishes to sell at whatever price he deems fit, no one is forcing anyone to buy at the offer price just as no one is forcing anyone to sell at a lower price. It is assumed here that both buyer and seller will use their own common sense while arriving at a mutually acceptable deal. If a buyer quotes an unusually high price - he is only harming himself, as his wares will not sell

The caveat of requiring every seller to at the very least put in an indicative price is to actually help prevent dishonest sellers from quoting widely different prices to potential buyers (based on who is asking)... not an unknown phenomenon around here. By requiring the seller to put in an expected price, the attempt is to at least level the playing field for potential buyers, in that at least everyone has the same starting point.

While none of us are happy with the prevailing situation in India, with the sky rocketing prices of even very ordinary types of guns - I don't see how browbeating an individual seller will help change this?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Grumpy]

"If you were a gunshop owner and were selling a gun to someone, would you like it if someone walks in and tells the potential buyer that he/she can get a similar gun for a lesser amount at another shop?"

No `if` about it Mack The Knife - it`s happened to me.......and it is bl**dy annoying however it might also indicate that my price was too high. ( It might also have been the case that like wasn`t being compared with like but that`s another matter. ) That`s the real world and reflects the right to free speech. Here no one is - apparently - allowed the same right.

"While none of us are happy with the prevailing situation in India, with the sky rocketing prices of even very ordinary types of guns - I don't see how browbeating an individual seller will help change this?"

Who was being browbeaten ? One person made one short, reasonable comment and was then browbeaten by several others.
That, combined with the condoning of humbug by alloying the same matter to be discussed elsewhere is the hypocrisy that I referred to.

Caveat emptor ? `Let the buyer beware` ? Yes, obviously - but let the vendor be aware that he is liable for criticism also. If not then an unequal market exists with protectionism being reserved for vendors only.

In any other advertising situation the vendor is obliged to provide full contact details - if he doesn`t that`s his hard luck for being incompetent. If potential buyers have a question here they can PM the vendor. If comment is permitted then all comment should be permitted. The alternatives are to have classified advertising or none at all.

[mundaire]

Grumps,

It does not always mean that the quoted price was too high relative to the existing market (though that may very well be the case here) - it can also be used in a malicious manner to ruin a transaction. The internet is an anonymous medium and unlike in the real world where at the very least the person making the statement is willing to be "stared down" so to speak - on the net anyone could possibly make a frivolous comment from the cosy anonymity of his home.

Logically the price that the seller is offering his goods at should be his business - no one else's! If a serious buyer wishes to make an offer he/ she is free to do so either in public or over PM. I don't see how allowing parties who are not interested in purchasing/ selling to make "tire kicker" type posts and/ or to comment on someone else's price (the sellers OR an offer made by a serious buyer) helps in any way.

That said - the total number of goods being offered for private sale on this site has been rather limited so far and therefore so has our experience in managing this area of the site. Always open to suggestions, so long as they are backed by logic and would benefit the membership at large...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[mundaire]

Grumps makes a very valid point - there are serious vested interests in keeping a lid on imports...

The last time I was in the market to buy a gun was in 1991 and I thought I did rather well - picking up a Belgian SxS shotgun (65mm chambers, 28" full & full choke boxlock w/ a prince of wales stock) for INR 18,000/- (net)... an ordinary working gun at a very affordable price... I doubt if I could even get an Indian made SxS shotgun at anything close to this price today!

Frankly the prices of guns in India bear little relation to their cost of manufacture or value in the International market... Very ordinary handguns command a huge premium, while some of the fine double rifles & shotguns go for a fraction of their international price!

I guess the only real option for someone looking for a relatively affordable firearm is to buy Indian made products - they do work, even if they are not as pretty...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[kanwar76]

HI! if you folx think the price of guns and ammo is expensive in India - then chk this little baby out a taser shotgun shell for $99 a pop details and link below . there is a pic on the link page if u want to take a dekko:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/10/taser_shotgun/

How is this relevant to the topic being discussed ?

Where is this post

he posted this because he is among those who thinks there is no problem in india about prices or availability of guns and ammo

-Inder

[Grumpy]

Abhijeet, by your logic if someone advertises a gun that I know to be a piece of junk then I will not be allowed to to say that it is a piece of junk.......but I would be allowed to initiate a topic elsewhere to discuss the sale of junk in general terms. If however I am permitted to say that it is a piece of junk then I should be allowed to say that it is expensive.......or an expensive piece of junk. Either you have free and open discussion ( without resorting to insult obviously ) or you don`t - and if you don`t then the advertising should be in classified form only. Discussion is a two-way process ..... or should be anyway.
I don`t know who Guncrazy is and don`t care. He made a reasonable comment concerning the asking price for this item and was censured for doing so. Saying that something is expensive is not an insult or degrading the product - it is a legitimate statement of fact - in his opinion. He apologised and later attempted to defend himself and received a yellow card. The vendor defended his price yet received no comnent.
Either there is something going on here that I don`t understand or this situation stinks. No wonder you have extortionately high prices for firearms in India if no one is allowed to directly comment on these prices. Either you allow reasonable comment or you don`t and if you don`t then advertising should be classified only - as it is elsewhere.

[Grumpy]

I`m glad you explained that Inder because those comments THOROUGHLY confused me - now, thanks you you, I`m just confused........................