Indians For Guns

Article posted in Mumbai Mirror
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/index.aspx? ... 20aea2f558

Centre shoots down all-India arms licence

With increasing misuse of the all-India arms licence, the Central Government has decided to restrict the validity of an arms licence to just four states. As per a circular issued by the Centre to all states last month (a copy of which is available with Mumbai Mirror), it has been decided that a State Government can grant a permit that is valid, apart from the state itself, in three adjoining states.

For example, if a person belongs to Maharashtra, he will get a permit valid for Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh and Karnataka in addition to Maharashtra.

The order comes in the wake of several applications submitted by visitors, who hold all-India permits. Records show that most of the people entering the state who carried weapons, had declared that they held all-India licences issued to them by the Nagaland government. Cases have also been detected of people from Maharashtra having obtained licences from Nagaland. The Mumbai police have arrested several people for misusing arms licences that were issued to them from Nagaland and Uttar Pradesh.

Maharashtra has been forwarding a number of queries to the Nagaland for authenticity of the submissions made by licence holders. The Nagaland government recently sent notices to all states saying they have issued only five such all-India licences. P K Jain, principal secretary, home department (special) of Maharashtra, said, “We have received the circular and will ensure strict implementation of the same.”

NEW CRITERIA FOR LICENCE

• Grant of licence for prohibited bore weapons

As per the new Central Government circular, such a licence will be granted to a person who faces threat to life. Such people include MPs and MLAs, non-officials/private individuals among others

• Grant of licence for non-prohibited bore weapons

No licence may be granted without police verification, including a report on antecedents of applicant

Good move! This had a great potential for misuse.

It is the most illogical and illegal move. Arms licenses by default should be "All India" since people get arms licenses for "self defense", and they need arms wherever they travel within the territory of India(since it is their fundamental right to travel anywhere in India). Rather I see it as a very old, slow and steady conspiracy to gradually stifle the rights of people on one excuse or the other. There is much much bigger misuse of firearms by police, like killing people in false encounters or supplying arms to outlaws etc. Is MHA also proposing to disarm the police? Given the rampart corruption in government departments, following might be just the tip of the iceberg: http://www.ptinews.com/news/652477_-4-c ... to-Naxals-
NAGRI is about to file a case in court against this, requesting all to fully support it. For details please refer the following post and links therein and subsequent posts: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 637#p99237

goodboy_mentor wrote:It is the most illogical and illegal move. Arms licenses by default should be "All India" since people get arms licenses for "self defense", and they need arms wherever they travel within the territory of India(since it is their fundamental right to travel anywhere in India). Rather I see it as a very old, slow and steady conspiracy to gradually stifle the rights of people on one excuse or the other. There is much much bigger misuse of firearms by police, like killing people in false encounters or supplying arms to outlaws etc. Is MHA also proposing to disarm the police? Given the rampart corruption in government departments, following might be just the tip of the iceberg: http://www.ptinews.com/news/652477_-4-c ... to-Naxals-
NAGRI is about to file a case in court against this, requesting all to fully support it. For details please refer the following post and links therein and subsequent posts: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 637#p99237

amer4545 wrote:Good move! This had a great potential for misuse.

Can you explain how? If a man is considered responsible enough to own a gun in one state why would he suddenly transform into a blood thirsty criminal in another?

Would you suggest that anything that had a "potential" for misuse should be banned? All of these have a potential for misuse:-

Sticks,stones,khurpas,bantee,sabal,sickle,choppers,swords,daggers,ropes,insecticide,razor blades,sedatives,kitchen knives,cars, a particular part of male anatomy(I am sure modern medicine can find out a way for people to have children in its absence),screwdrivers, hammers,cycle chains,iron rods,electricity(through electrocution).I am sure the list can be made more extensive.

If you read the article there is no reference of any one using a gun held on an All India License for committing a crime.People resort to desperate measures like going to other states and paying huge sums of money as bribes,mainly because of the near impossibility of getting an AIV on their license in the state that they live in.People feel the need to carry a license because of a)the nature of their job b)the area that they travel to or the time that they travel at c)criminal gangs operating in some areas d)general lawlessness.The govt. can't provide protection to each and every citizen.

Say you are traveling with your mother/sister/wife/female friend and are confronted by one or two men armed with knives or any other sort of weapon and intent on mischief,how are you going to protect them or their 'honour'.You would be lucky if you are able to get an FIR registered afterwards.

BTW I.P.C. allows for a potential rape victim to kill her attacker/s

So the govt. is going to transform law abiding citizens into criminals.Brilliant.

Did I vote for the present MH.NO.Did you?

The same concern was raised few years back in delhi also, there were large no of license holder in Prvt Security Firms, having All india issued from Nagaland, but i think at that time it turned up to be a case of forging, licenses were not issued at all.
But jokes apart, I never understand the whole concept of all india license.
I think most importance official document which a citizen is issue is Passport. it goes through, i think more rigorous process than anything other document, but then in that we dont have any such criteria, that if a person is issue passport, he can board flights only from state of issue or states around it, not mumbai or delhi.
There is no such discrimination there, then why in this case.
The solution to the problem is not with restricting, it will be done through more centralized and automated system of information sharing.
Secondly, with enforcing 3 neighbor states rule, than means, we are not trying to curb the crime in india, but we are doing hand washing act, its like dont do bad in my house, do it other house.
Misuse will not happen in mumbai, but yeah you are welcome to misuse it in Assam and Sikim.
When will this mind set change, from saving our skin to fixing larger issue

Once again the babu's are talking the easy way out.

if it causes problems to the common man, who cares..

diskaon

dealtoday wrote: NEW CRITERIA FOR LICENCE

As per the new Central Government circular, such a licence will be granted to a person who faces threat to life. Such people include MPs and MLAs, non-officials/private individuals among others

"non-officials/private individuals" ...er...now wouldn't that be everyone else?... or is the 'common' citizen not considered an individual...or human for than matter?

Another nonsensical notion of the babus and the system... its all about exclusivity, privilege and being a government person... outside that, everyone is an expendable burden to the country. Bloody arrogant ar*e-brains.

• Grant of licence for non-prohibited bore weapons

No licence may be granted without police verification, including a report on antecedents of applicant

Nothing new here... isn't it a standard requirement under the arms rules?

UMBAI MIRROR 15th May 2010 SATURDAY

With increasing misuse of the all-India arms licence, the Central Government has decided to restrict the validity of an arms licence to just four states.

As per a circular issued by the Centre to all states last month (a copy of which is available with Mumbai Mirror), it has been decided that a State Government can grant a permit that is valid, apart from the state itself, in three adjoining states. For example, if a person belongs to Maharashtra, he will get a permit valid for Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh and Karnataka in addition to Maharashtra.
The order comes in the wake of several applications submitted by visitors, who hold all-India permits. Records show that most of the people entering the state who carried weapons, had declared that they held all-India licences issued to them by the Nagaland government. Cases have also been detected of people from Maharashtra having obtained licences from Nagaland. The Mumbai police have arrested several people for misusing arms licences that were issued to them from Nagaland and U.P..
Maharashtra has been forwarding a number of queries to the Nagaland for authenticity of the submissions made by licence holders. The Nagaland government recently sent notices to all states saying they have issued only five such all-India licences. P K Jain, principal secretary, home department (special) of Maharashtra, said, “We have received the circular and will ensure strict implementation of the same.”
NEW CRITERIA FOR LICENCE
Grant of licence for prohibited bore weapons As per the new Central Government circular, such a licence will be granted to a person who faces threat to life. Such people include MPs and MLAs, non-officials/private individuals among others
Grant of licence for non-prohibited bore weapons No licence may be granted without police verification, including a report on antecedents of applicant
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some All india licence fruad had taken place in Nagaland and punishment to all states licence holder, at the time of renewal is they going to add the above 4 states on the arms licence? As far the survey .1% crime has taken place from the licence holder it means they need not have to think of such decisions, another thing they are going to try implement is buying of ammunition must be 15ammo per year where as each time of renewal the person has to submit SP report along with the written statement why he wants the licence, is it necessary, for what reason etc... then it will be decided to renew licence or to discontinue, all these things are going to be an headache in future.

Ladies & Gentlemen,
These kind of policies are nothing but a gross insult to law abiding citizens, it is nothing but treating citizens not as citizens but as slaves and we must take it seriously. It is nothing but a conspiracy, first create such rules which are bound to be broken, then take those incidents as an excuse to further shackle the innocents. It also gives a handle for the corrupt babus to extort bribes. I request all again, NAGRI is about to file a case in court against this, requesting all to fully support it. For details please refer the following post and links therein and subsequent posts: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 637#p99237

This is bloody disturbing-was thinking to add a third all india licence for a sidearm which i will acquire in the near future .dont know whats wrong with these babus in the MHA.it also means that one will require a NOC to carry his firearm in other states

Punishing all "All India Valid" (AIV) Licensees for the misuse of licenses by a few is ridiculous. Instead of taking steps to prevent this they are penalising innocent law abiding licensees. Anyway the Home Secretary keeps track of all AIV licenses in any state,if a framework is set up so that any Arms Dealer or a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) can access the particulars of any license issued in another state, the license in question can be verified easily and reliably. Copying the American system for back ground checks to some extent, we can easily do as below:

1. Issue all Arms Dealers with Unique ID numbers that can be used to verify the authenticity of any & all ALL India License issued anywhere in India. This information should be available to no other person other than LEOs and Dealers.
2. Set up a call center type unique phone number(s) for each States Home office for dealers and LEOs to obtain this info from a person by phone.Alternately this info can be accessed by the above, online, but may be less secure.
3. Issue Plastic card/ Credit Card type Arms licenses with magnetic strips (like smart IDs) and even data such as quantity of ammo purchased in a year/per renewal period can be stored on it. These can not be easily tampered with or forged.
4.It can also be set up so that if a card reader/swiper (like for credit cards) is obtained by dealers and connected to the above phone number(s), then just swiping the card can also obtain the particulars of the license in question.
5. If the current format of an Arms License in book format must be retained then at least make it on the lines of a Passport with added security features and not easily tampered or forged like a Electronic Passport with a chip in it. Again increased cost (easily covered by the renewal fees now being charged)is the only downside.

While these may have their own problems such as increased cost in set up, it is easily done with technology available today. It sure beats punishing those who never committed the crime.

Regards,
Anand

"Restrict validity to 4 surrounding states".
Why call it an All India Licence in that case?
RIDICULOUS.
How does a person living in Chattisgarh decide on which states to choose from when his state (which was earlier a part of Madhya Pradesh) is surrounded by 6 states. {M.P.,U.P.,Jharkhand (carved out of Bihar),Orissa, A.P., and Maharashtra}
The same goes for a person from Assam or from M.P.

Let us not forget this policy has a "special" and unwritten exemption for insurgents in J.&K., Northeast, Maoists and all manner of criminals. Why go into the trouble of increasing costs for rest of the citizens like putting up Unique ID kind of thing etc. etc. and put the law abiding into further pointless shackles? Let them make a level playing field for all and repeal Arms Act and declare RKBA as a Fundamental Right as promised by Congress to the Nation. Congress does owe this promise to the nation, isn't it?

its called gun control. of the worse kind, let the criminal go free and punish the innocent.