Indians For Guns

Hi All,

Kindly check out the below link

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_bi ... am_1311899

The Gov of India is revieing the Arms policy and Arms Act. Yesterday evening i saw a ticker that GOI is presenting an Arms Bill in the parliament soon.

Regards,

I have kept my mouth shut on this thinking I had heard a rumour, I do not know which way this review will end up. But I have heard that something very good is going to come up for all current arms license holders. Lets pray to God for the Best!

yes indeed, let me see oh yes , i must tell my local goonds to get their firearms DNA ed. once again law aiding citizen is under threat. Welcome to the biggest Democracy in the world.

they sure know how to waste tax payers money.

DNA databanks, stricter Arms laws and the NUID initiative - our lawmakers seem to be working overtime towards making the vision of "1984" a reality in India!

Very worrying developments indeed.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Quite appropriately today's TOI carried the following quote (by Ben Franklin) on the front page - "Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security"

mundaire wrote:DNA databanks, stricter Arms laws and the NUID initiative - our lawmakers seem to be working overtime towards making the vision of "1984" a reality in India!

Very worrying developments indeed.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Quite appropriately today's TOI carried the following quote (by Ben Franklin) on the front page - "Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security"

Yes Big Brother, two legs good four legs beeeeeeeeeeed what gets to me is that it only controls the law abidding citizens. bhhaa bhhha,

Another half baked bad idea.

And law abiding arms owners of this country will again take this lying down

I don't expect anything good. Buckle up your seat belts brothers they are again going to take whatever left with you.

-Inder

To my mail a few days ago, the reply from the under secretary to the Government was " We will consider your request as and when the arms policy is reviewed" .

Hope they still have my humble request somewhere in their files and they implement few of the suggestions.
My argument is I don't want to pay a single paisa towards home security from my income tax after Mumbai carnage, Those people who were killed in Mumbai must have paid taxes of course and yet they faced the worst of the deaths, the law made sure that they couldn't defend themselves and the system didn't have means to protect them. The hotel security guards didn't have fire arms for god's sake.
We all saw the outcome.

Service not rendered even thought taxed (heavily) in advance. And we tolerate it, chewing fodder, being holy cow since ages.

My heart weeps for those who were victimized, the perpetrators were not only outsiders but also insiders and this eunuch system, which has definitions from abstract,which is good for books but not for real life.

How many days the country mourned the ultimate rape of its people on its land ? ministers with fake expression and fake statements like "bade bade sharon mein aisa hota rahta hai" came on TV and went off, some resigned , so what ???? Where are we now ? are we better protected ? what is the outcome of the investigation ? why not all the perpetrators are under the ground buried in their sorry graves till date ?

System is chewing fodder and so are we, wait a bit more and even the fodder will be taken away.
Probably government is thinking about it already .

If you are farmer you get an arms license, if you work in the army ,you too get the license easily but if you are professional no hope.

Its no more the country of "jai jawaan and jai kisaan" , its now the country of "jai jawaan, jai kisaan and jai Vidwaan" ( vidwaan - a rough translation) .Biggest source of tax, foreign currency, export are considered nowhere in those policies and laws,

If the Netas (?) don't understand that , this dissatisfaction will increase and probably this will end in something good.

Government should also understand that tax is not its right, its a service token, provide service else stop taking tax.Or better still refund, where is the consumer courts for the same ?

Jai jawan jai kisaan and jai vidvaan

Where do you think the Naxals and Moaists have come from. Government apathy and neglect, what do you expect poor chaps to do, when they cannot feed their own kids. If the government does not redress the arms act in a positive manner, people are not going to have any other choice but to keep illegal firearms.

I on my part had printed the remarkable piece on RKBA authored by Vikram and had sent it on the official address of Mr Rahul Gandhi few days back and had asked for an hour of his time in coming months. I was hoping(against hope) that if we get sometime off him, i will get Abhijeet and other gurus involved and present our case to him. Sorry that i didn't asked for approval doing it the first time.
I have not received any reply from his office as yet, will try to send a follow up letter in a day or two, if it meets approval of the IFGIANS.
Regards

Hi Everybody,
Why are we all so worked up over the review of the arms act.Lets welcome it.Maybe there will be some good in it.
If at all somebody has to fear about the sweeping changes that may come in its those who hold illegal arms and are caught with it.Such shady characters will possibly find it difficult to come out of the sarkari guest house if caught.
As it is what is the big deal we indian citizens are getting under the present,that we stand to loose.NOTHING
We as licence arms holders have nothing to fear.Lets cross he bridge when we come to it.
If at all some draconian policy does come into effect we can always approach the court of law.
What we need is collective action and numbers to put our point across.
GR

Let us wait and watch till the new Act comes to light, and ofcouse this will let the law abiding citizens to know, if govt cares to fight back the meanance of terrorism and crime by effectively arming them (the law abiding citizens of India). I said effectively as mouse guns are of no use. The restriction of owning weapons capable of chambering the service ammunition and ban on import of weapons is something that everybody wants to go off and made things of past, as these seems to be non-senseical and outdated virtues. This will not only effectively arm the citizens but also generate a lot of revenue for the government. The ammunition quota also needs to be enhanced. But, as most of you have remarked, the chances are less. What I understand that, most probably, they will show their concern only on counting the legally owned fire-arms from time to time

lets hope for the best as we nothing to lose,
tingriman

Pran 80
This is just the kind of iniative required to make our case heard. I spoke to one of seniors yesterday and he is also keeping a close watch. What we do require is a concerted effort from all sides. I do believe that if most of us pitch in we can come up with a fairly good proposal. Let us contact all the MPs we know and at least go and meet them and talk to them. By MPs I mean those who will be sympathetic to our concerns.
Keep up the good work, let us know if we can do anything to help.
Regards

gunrunner wrote:Hi Everybody,
Why are we all so worked up over the review of the arms act.Lets welcome it.Maybe there will be some good in it.
If at all somebody has to fear about the sweeping changes that may come in its those who hold illegal arms and are caught with it.Such shady characters will possibly find it difficult to come out of the sarkari guest house if caught.
As it is what is the big deal we indian citizens are getting under the present,that we stand to loose.NOTHING
We as licence arms holders have nothing to fear.Lets cross he bridge when we come to it.
If at all some draconian policy does come into effect we can always approach the court of law.
What we need is collective action and numbers to put our point across.
GR

Not quite!

a) If the laws are made even tighter - all of us will be affected. As it is, irrespective of the intent and wording of the law, in India we have one of the most stringent anti-gun regimes in place.

b) This one will earn me some brickbats, but I think it needs to be said by someone - Who I ask are the people who hold illegal arms? On the face of it, they are all criminals, this by the simple fact of them being in possession of unlicensed firearms. It is important to note here that the possession of an unlicensed firearm is a "victimless crime", as in the crime is not committed against anyone in particular, but is considered a crime nevertheless as the law presumes that the possession of an unlicensed firearm can only be interpreted as malafide intent on the part of the possessor, i.e. intent to use it in the commission of a violent crime etc. However, one must ask oneself if this is always true, or for that matter true in the majority of cases? In the Indian scenario, wherein the government has made the licensing process inordinately difficult for the common man and price of legal firearms has been artificially pushed beyond their actual worth, it is not possible for the average Joe to acquire a firearm. Even if he does acquire a legal firearm, he is regularly penalised by the system - renewing the license every 3 years, ordered to deposit the firearm on demand etc. Hence, many otherwise law abiding people (especially in the rural areas), are pushed towards acquiring an illegal firearm - because even if the system does not accord their life and limb with any real value - they do! Of course in doing so, under the law these people become criminals... without ever desiring to or even actually hurting anyone. Also, many legal firearms end up becoming "illegal" as the heirs of the previous owner either do not know how to go about getting it transferred in their name or are simply too afraid of the hassles they would have to go through in getting the required paperwork & permissions etc. done. So such firearms end up being consigned to some closet in the house, not harming anyone - but illegal all the same, and the possessors are equally punishable under law. Not to say that "real" criminals do not possess illegal arms, of course they do. But I would very much doubt that the 40 million firearms in India figure (of which they say 90% are illegal), are all in the possession of career criminals... The point I am making is simply that, not everyone in UP or Bihar (just for example, please do not misconstrue the mention of these two states) with an illegal firearm is a career criminal, they are mostly ordinary folk who feel that they need a firearm for personal protection, but the system does not afford them that freedom. Do these chaps need to be sent away for 7 years (as per current law)? Or does the system need to be changed so that they can defend themselves and their loved ones with legal firearms?

c) Do you suggest we first wait to loose whatever little freedoms we have before acting?

The stated objective of the Arms Act 1959 was to make it easier for the average citizen to acquire firearms, while keeping them out of the hands of criminals. IMHO it has failed on both counts, hence should simply be done away with. It is silly in the extreme to keep unenforceable and impractical laws on the books, simply because having them gives a few misguided souls a false sense of security. For crimes committed using firearms (or for that matter other types of arms), there are already enough provisions under the IPC for prosecution of the perpetrators - there is simply no logic or need to prosecute or restrict the possession of firearms by sane, law abiding citizens.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

-- 17 Nov 2009 12:52 pm --

P.S. - I do not condone anyone breaking the law as it stands, however as citizens it is incumbent on all of us to try and have asinine laws changed for the better

I think when the government is considering a review of arms act we should raise our voice through media with all our concerns and suggestion, let it be posted on leading newspapers so that the attention of the public and government alike is drawn to the issue.
This is our only chance once the government makes the amendments it will again go to sleep on it, please guys i urge all to do something definite now, NOW or never.

Lets form a post of suggestion and make a new thread on the same, get all the suggestions, feedbacks and concern and try to get media on the same.
Lets take it head on.

Else after a month or we will be just beating a dead horse.
Moderators please advise.