Indians For Guns

Hi i am a long time lurker who loves guns but dont own yet.I was thinking that the recent gold medal by abhijeet bindra has opened the gun market.We should invite him here and interview him and also persuade him to persuade our politicians to amend our constitution to have 2nd amendment.
I was yesterday seeing the news where police were training village people in arms in a town in UP to thwart bandits.This is a great initiative.If enough people have guns Maoists wont exist,crimes would go down(yes in some cities in US where gun owner is mandatory there is virtually no crime)

also why didn't our founding fathers including right to bear arms?.I read somewhere that it was originally included but removed.Is it true?

warthog wrote:... recent gold medal by abhijeet bindra ...

Dear long time lurker.. Its Abhinav Bindra and not Abhijeet Bindra

And, yes, your notion of calling in Bindra for an interview is reasonable.

warthog wrote:...If enough people have guns Maoists wont exist,crimes would go down...

If this happens, and if there are unbalanced individuals among the 'enough people' you mention, crime rates will soar...

BTW, It would be great if you would care enough to introduce yourself to the forum.... I guess thats a much better way to start off.. what say

.. And of course.. WELCOME TO IFG

Errr, yeah it's Abhinav Bindra

warthog wrote:...If enough people have guns Maoists wont exist,crimes would go down...

I agree unfortunately as you can see even amongst the shooting fraternity not everyone is entirely convinced... It's an uphill battle convincing people about RKBA, we seem to all be much too tuned to a slave mentality

warthog wrote:also why didn't our founding fathers including right to bear arms?.I read somewhere that it was originally included but removed.Is it true?

Yes the right to keep and bear arms was part of the original declaration wherein the congress enumerated the fundamental rights that should be part of ANY constitution of a FREE INDIA. This however never made it to the actual constitution of India.... but considering the amount of debate they had on universal adult franchise (in the constituent assembly) you'll realise that we are even lucky to be able to vote

Cheers!
Abhijeet

mundaire wrote:...you'll realise that we are even lucky to be able to vote ...

How True..
Then again, the voting mechanism itself is a life long subject of debate... and that life ai'nt starting tonight

TenX wrote:If this happens, and if there are unbalanced individuals among the 'enough people' you mention, crime rates will soar...

Which side you on buddy? No one is recommending that people with criminal records or a history of metal illness be allowed to carry guns...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

mundaire wrote: Which side you on buddy? No one is recommending that people with criminal records or a history of metal illness be allowed to carry guns...

I agree..
But for discussion sake - how good are our criminal records, how many cases of mental illness is recorded in a country where most doctors only run after money.

In a typical platform, it would be best for everyone to have his own defense, since the general tendency of the roughnecks are to only harass the weak. That said, the weak deserve to amply equip themselves for any uncalled event, and arming them may just about work fine.
But if it is actually made so easily available in a country like ours where rule-makers play volley with others' taxes; where rule-breakers get away with a clean chit..... Well, I cant say much

Even then we would be much better off with large scale civilian gun ownership! As it is a statistically proven fact that deviants make up less than 2-5% of the population. If even 50% of people are armed they would far outweigh the negative effects of a few miscreants getting arms more easily. Not to forget that a determined person with criminal intent can acquire an AK type gun far easier than you or me can get a .22 LR sporting rifle - and at a fraction of the cost!!

Liberty is not a risk free concept... or didn't you realise that? But freedom is worth the cost, it always has been and always will be...

mundaire wrote: ...Liberty is not a risk free concept... or didn't you realise that? But freedom is worth the cost, it always has been and always will be...

Yes, I agree... rather, I mostly do. Somehow, something is not allowing me to completely agree with you, and yet, at the same time, I know there is surely a lot of sense in what you say

TenX wrote:Somehow, something is not allowing me to completely agree with you,

That would be the hangover from 200 years of slavery... and the dubious distinction of belonging to one of the very first country's to put in place gun control legislation (after the 1857 mutiny)...

Best cure is, two alka seltzers, a tall glass of cold water and some reading material on the concepts of liberty and freedom... but it's always better to travel overseas and experience it first hand...

Well.. some experience has been revelled in. Some other points that I should have mentioned earlier are:

mundaire wrote:...If even 50% of people are armed they would far outweigh the negative effects of a few miscreants getting arms more easily...

What about the other 47%. They will be even more susceptible now, considering availability of arms at ease.

Another thing is that, people still rob with kitchen knives, create havoc with kerosene bottles; road-rages aplenty; etc etc... In such a situation, how much would the concept of 'free-arming' help? It will give the evil side an advantage which people dread. Not that I do, or for that matter, anyone in IFG... but going a bit beyond.. The masses are a question that cannot be answered.
There has been a wrong balance formed around us, and 'arming' all of them, without the right responsibility, education or awareness may not be the best deal.
How much ever I would love to have a big large collection of guns, there is a bit of dread in seeing them in the hands of the several many who are careless and irresponsible; those who love to break bottles on the street calling it a 'night-out'; those who raid parties in the name of some local association; those who bully for a living. The wrong balance I talked about has more to do with a greater percentage of the non-aware 'janta', which may not be so in Yonderland

Chief.. what about actually inviting Bindra for an interview with IFG

TenX wrote:Well.. some experience has been revelled in. Some other points that I should have mentioned earlier are:

mundaire wrote: ...If even 50% of people are armed they would far outweigh the negative effects of a few miscreants getting arms more easily...

What about the other 47%. They will be even more susceptible now, considering availability of arms at ease.

Another thing is that, people still rob with kitchen knives, create havoc with kerosene bottles; road-rages aplenty; etc etc... In such a situation, how much would the concept of 'free-arming' help? It will give the evil side an advantage which people dread. Not that I do, or for that matter, anyone in IFG... but going a bit beyond.. The masses are a question that cannot be answered.
There has been a wrong balance formed around us, and 'arming' all of them, without the right responsibility, education or awareness may not be the best deal.
How much ever I would love to have a big large collection of guns, there is a bit of dread in seeing them in the hands of the several many who are careless and irresponsible; those who love to break bottles on the street calling it a 'night-out'; those who raid parties in the name of some local association; those who bully for a living. The wrong balance I talked about has more to do with a greater percentage of the non-aware 'janta', which may not be so in Yonderland

Who will do all that when they will know that the other person might me having something hot in his pocket..

-Inder

kanwar76 wrote:Who will do all that when they will know that the other person might me having something hot in his pocket..

-Inder

Yes.. that will throw the other person in a complete state of confusion..
Then again, how many would actually use a fire-arm in a situation?

TenX wrote: What about the other 47%. They will be even more susceptible now, considering availability of arms at ease.

Another thing is that, people still rob with kitchen knives, create havoc with kerosene bottles; road-rages aplenty; etc etc... In such a situation, how much would the concept of 'free-arming' help? It will give the evil side an advantage which people dread. Not that I do, or for that matter, anyone in IFG... but going a bit beyond.. The masses are a question that cannot be answered.
There has been a wrong balance formed around us, and 'arming' all of them, without the right responsibility, education or awareness may not be the best deal.
How much ever I would love to have a big large collection of guns, there is a bit of dread in seeing them in the hands of the several many who are careless and irresponsible; those who love to break bottles on the street calling it a 'night-out'; those who raid parties in the name of some local association; those who bully for a living. The wrong balance I talked about has more to do with a greater percentage of the non-aware 'janta', which may not be so in Yonderland

TenX, you are not alone - there are plenty of gun owners in India who feel the same way... quite unfortunately! If we are to suspect the hoi polli of seditious tendencies or a propensity to mass criminality then we have automatically undermined the very basis on which the law bases universal adult franchise. If people are considered responsible enough to elect a government which incidentally has it's fingers on the "nuclear button", which in an instant has the potential to wipe out a very large % of humanity then surely we should give them the benefit of doubt in terms of making responsible choices in other aspects of life as well?

A democracy cannot but be based on the premise that the people will largely do what is good in terms of the choices they make, and this is actually a fact that is borne out by real life experiences of many countries who have been practising democracy for far longer than us.

I could go on all night... but lets reconvene in the morning on this, am bushed right now...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Alrighty.. Good night..