Page 1 of 2

Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story...

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:49 am
by timmy
It is a common saying that stupidity is trying the same old thing over and over again and expecting a different result. People think that the terrorism of women (let's face it, that's all it is, nothing more and nothing less) is going to go away with some fine words of outrage alone. When women will be able to exert force and defend themselves against these alley cats, one might reasonably expect some change.

I noted in here how many men will defend the actions of these goons and place the blame on women with some flimsy reasoning. I think that such attitudes would change quickly with a view down a loaded barrel! Why it is that these law abiding citizens have to be subjected to this random terror while being deprived of the ability to protect themselves is beyond me.

Here is a new article about rape in Delhi from the BBC India desk:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20765364
Delhi correspondent Soutik Biswas
Women's tales from brutal Delhi

Delhi is India's 'rape capital'
A 23-year-old woman is savagely attacked and raped by a group of men inside a moving bus and her male friend is beaten up senselessly. Battered and bleeding profusely, they are dumped near an expressway in Delhi, where they are found by a passer-by.

Another day, another rape, another round of outrage. Yet, more than 630 rapes later this year so far, nothing much will really change.

Doctors treating the woman, a paramedic student, who is on life support at a crowded city hospital are aghast. They say this is the "most grievous" case of rape they have handled.

"This was much more than rape… They were extensive injuries… It appears that a blunt object had been used repeatedly [by the attackers]," says one.

Sunday night's incident in India's "rape capital" was gut-wrenchingly brutal even for a city which has become numb to crimes against women.

The mistreatment and abuse of women is a particular problem in Delhi and northern India. A stiflingly patriarchal social mindset, a brazen culture of political power, a general disdain for law, a largely insensitive police force and a rising population of rootless, lawless migrants are only some of the reasons. There must be many others.

So if you are a woman - unless you are very rich and privileged - you are more likely to face indignity and humiliation here.

In this part of the world where I live and work, people blame rapes on pornography, the influence of foreign cultures and women themselves - for wearing Western dresses and going out with male friends. When another incident happens, the indignant headlines, excited TV talk shows, candlelight vigils, promises by authorities and platitudes by politicians return with familiar gusto.

But nothing really changes for Delhi's women. "It is as if there is a silent conspiracy in this city," a woman friend says, "to keep the women scared." They say they are not safe anywhere, at home, on the streets, on a bus, on the new metro system, nowhere really.

A friend, who works in the media, tells me about life as a Delhi woman. It is infinitely worse for those who are less privileged than her.

When she was living as a paying guest in an upscale south Delhi neighbourhood a few years ago, a drunk male cook barged into her room at night, yanked at her bed sheet and tried to attack her. The man fled after she screamed.

"My landlord, a perfectly respectable person on the outside, came up and said I must have been dreaming, that there could not have been an attack. His mother had heard my screams so she believed me. I left the place, and they said they had sacked the cook. When I checked later, I found that the cook had returned and was working," she remembers.

After she joined salsa classes a few years later, her friends arrived to pick her up for a competition.

They were waiting for a taxi when a policeman walked up and challenged the boys. "You are hanging out with a loose woman," the policeman grunted. "Give me your parents' numbers, we will tell them."

When her friends protested, the policeman went up to the landlady and extracted a bribe. "They told her they would file cases against her saying she had rented her place to a suspicious woman without a proper rent agreement."

One evening, a few years ago, she was walking home from work when a young man sidled up to her and said something very obscene. She asked him to shut up and walked on.

The man ran after her, stopped her in her tracks, and told her bluntly: "I will pour acid on your face next time you say that." Then he vanished.

"I came home and began crying. I was scared of going out for the next few days," she says.

It doesn't help much if a woman is accompanied by a male friend or spouse.

Another woman friend travelling with a male friend in an auto-rickshaw was waylaid by a group of young boys in a posh neighbourhood a few years ago. They blocked the auto-rickshaw at a crossing, pointed a gun at her friend and shouted abuse at him.

"They wanted to instigate him, they said he was going out with a prostitute. My friend kept quiet and apologised. They let us go after robbing us," she remembers.

When my journalist friend travels alone in an auto-rickshaw on the city's mean streets, she keeps having real and imaginary conversations on the phone with friends and relatives. She doesn't take an auto-rickshaw if she finds the driver overfriendly. If she takes a taxi, she texts the registration number to a friend. She keeps phone numbers for a handful of "reliable" drivers whom she can count on to take her home.

Delhi's disdain for its women possibly mirrors the city itself, says a cynical friend and long-time resident.

A city largely, he says, made up of a deracinated generation of migrants, rich and poor, living in their own worlds in gated neighbourhoods and grimy slums which all make genuine collective action difficult. An ineffective police and a broken justice system make matters worse.

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:47 am
by Grumpy
That article is over eight months old Timmy ..... and whilst I will in no way condone the act of rape in any circumstance I would like to point out that the rape and murder of the girl student on the bus received more publicity than any previous rape and drew attention from not only within India but throughout the world. It needs to be said however that now the case has been dealt with all the furore regarding the incidence of rape seems to have died down completely.
I gather that whilst the demand for carry licences from women increased dramatically after the publicity attendant upon this case - and a couple of other well-publicised rapes - the actual number of licences issues to women has been virtually zero. It seems that a genuine fear of being raped in what was being described as `the rape capital of the world` is not a legitimate reason for a woman to be granted a permit to carry a handgun. Those politicians that jumped on the publicity bandwagon have obviously decided that another, more immediate cause for personal aggrandisement now needs to be found .... after all, rape was last winter`s cause celebre and is now so passe ..........
Or perhaps I`m wrong.
So guys, has anything changed in `the rape capital of the world`?

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:13 am
by nagarifle
i don not suppose that you have heard of the photo journalist lady being raped last week.

the last word is that we can not even trust the police as they do also carry out rape in jail as well. not all police, but there have been cases where a rape has been reported and the police accused the lady and to the extent raped her themselves.

when the head is sick so is the body.

if our leaders are corrupt and sick in the the head, and they are the head of the nation. then the whole nation becomes infected with sickness.

sorry for rambling on but we can only blame our selves for the section and election of people who are sick in the head.

even with fast track courts and stiffer punishments declared, why does rape goes on?

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:19 am
by timmy
Grumpy wrote:That article is over eight months old Timmy ..... and whilst I will in no way condone the act of rape in any circumstance I would like to point out that the rape and murder of the girl student on the bus received more publicity than any previous rape and drew attention from not only within India but throughout the world. It needs to be said however that now the case has been dealt with all the furore regarding the incidence of rape seems to have died down completely.

So guys, has anything changed in `the rape capital of the world`?
Grumpy, Naga has nailed it: This whole sordid business has been repeated in Mumbai, where a young photojournalist was dragged off into the bushes and assaulted, and her male coworker beaten. So, despite all of the hullaballoo that you refer to, this stuff still goes on and the same old gasbags spout their malignant and lame excuses for the terrorists. (I call them that, because that's what they are.)

My point in bringing this article up is that it refreshes the discussion and makes the same points: despite what public outcry was raised earlier, the problem still exists and the need for a person to protect himself/herself -- especially herself -- still remains.

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:10 am
by StampMaster
Rape has caught attention lately in India, and only after the Delhi case. However, it cannot be curbed just with getting stringent laws (capital punishment etc). Unless proper measures are taken from the grass root level to stop such inhuman behavior.

Police, hospital/doctors etc have to be equally liable to punishment if they anyway help these rapists in any way- compliant from the victim is not filed immediately, providing false information.
A 35-year-old woman was gangraped by six persons and robbed of her jewellery at the Jangamaiahgari Palle village of Chittoor district on Thursday. The incident, however, came to light only on Monday, after the victim and her husband alleged that there was no response from the police to their complaints. According to sources, the woman was returning home from the fields on Thursday.

Incident happened on Thursday evening when a group of eight persons lured her by promising to get her country-fowl meat and liquor. After getting her drunk, the men took her to a nearby forest and six of them raped her. Two others in the group had changed their minds and had left.

The woman, along with her husband, lodged a complaint with the Chowdepalle police. The victim’s family members alleged that the woman was robbed of her gold ornaments too by the rapists.

Though the victim’s husband had reportedly approached the police several times, the cops had allegedly ignored his complaint as some village elders were trying to settle the matter. However, on Monday, with the victim threatening to approach women’s groups, the police arrested seven persons — K. Reddappa, Narasimhulu, Jayaramaiah, Yellappa, Subramanyam, Venkatramana and Sekhar.
Source: Deccan Chronicle - http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130827/n ... 7-arrested

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:37 am
by essdee1972
StampMaster, I can predict what the reactions to your story from Chittoor will be: "the woman was necessarily of loose character, because she was lured by meat & liquor".

Unless the attitude changes (and I am afraid this attitude is prevalent in at least 90% Indians)..............

1) A person imbibing liquor, whatever Gandhi or anyone else said (with all due respects), is not necessarily of loose character
2) A woman (or man), even one of loose character, does not deserve to be raped. If she sells a service, you bloody well pay and get that service! You don't beat up a doctor and get him to treat you, do you?
3) It is not the landlord's, neighbours', parents', uncles', cop's, mahila sangathan's or anybody else's business what a person (male or female) does with his/herself, after attaining majority, as long as that person is not harming others (e.g. peddling drugs).

What is loose character anyway? Can I call an old-timer Maharajah / Badshah with a few hundred women, eunuchs, boys, etc. as "loose character"? Or does loose character start with people like us, who might look appreciatively at other women, even though we are hitched to one? or is it a term reserved exclusively for the ladies, especially those who are seen with men who are not their relatives?

As long as we as a nation look at single, unmarried, unaccompanied ladies as "suspicious characters" or "easy pickings", we can only pray! And of course, as long as we look at guns as taboo and not as necessary tools, we better stop praying and jump en masse into the ocean!

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:27 pm
by StampMaster
essdee- in a way, i agree with you. What I don't understand is why people do not use common sense and fall prey to such incidents. Could we call them insane or unsound mind?

And very similar incident happened a few months ago with an Engineering girl student in Hyderabad (LB Nagar). She was lured saying he would reveal some secret of her boy friend, by a gym owner.

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:30 pm
by TwoRivers
StampMaster wrote:essdee- in a way, i agree with you. What I don't understand is why people do not use common sense and fall prey to such incidents. Could we call them insane or unsound mind? .
Too trusting, and inexperienced, I'd say. And that still assigns no blame to the victim. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you have to expect to be raped by any man you encounter. No women should have to live in a state of fear and paranoia. Even a lapse in caution, or common sense, should not get you raped. Ever.

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:53 am
by nagarifle
RAPE dose not happen in wild empty places, it can happen even in homes. if we say that they should not go here or there we have missed the point.

RAPE IS RAPE regardless of where or who its done by.

the thing with common sense is that its not very common.

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:09 am
by YogiBear
Aloha,

There is a very simple, effective answer to Reduce these incidents.

But, of course, it most likely will not happen because of several reasons.

Majority of legislators are men and they will come up with reasons Why the idea will not work.

Not to mention, it goes Against the thinking of Majority of police.

Think outside the box.

Have specially trained women(unarmed combat/hand to hand) escorted by equally well trained innocuous

looking male companion. Armed if possible.

Let them "troll" problem areas. Have other undercover officers videoing the entire incident.

When attacked, respond in kind.

This should be a coordinated function involving law enforcement in All large cities.

All start on same day and time.

Catch and Not release.

Should be interesting watching it on the evening news.

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:33 pm
by Amit357
Yogi,with majority of our Law Makers charged with Heinous Crimes,Rape being one of them,what do you expect from the common Cop,who's main job is to protect the law maker & their respective families.The Grandson of an Ex Chief Minister was charged with molesting a French Girl & today he is a M.P in our great Parliament........,Cops need the the help of the Political Masters for various favors and their relationship with the political bosses is of mutual admiration.The poor Journo who was raped in Mumbai had aspersions cast on her Character cause one of the accused was a police stooge.

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:27 pm
by TwoRivers
Amit357 wrote:The poor Journo who was raped in Mumbai had aspersions cast on her Character cause one of the accused was a police stooge.
That's something that happens at every rape trial. If the woman is at all of age, the defense lawyer will always attempt to cast aspersion upon the victim's character. If not of age, he'll try to make her out a habitual liar and storyteller.

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:42 pm
by StampMaster
And here goes the great news, that a new law is passed in the parliament against the recent Supreme Court verdict "citizens who serves a jail term of 2 years or more cannot participate in elections".

Well, I salute Anna Hazare, Arvind Kejriwal, Lilly Thomas as they still didnt loose hope.

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:03 am
by timmy
As you can see, the ordinary citizen, right along with the politicians they elect, don't give a hoot about someone else being assaulted or robbed. This is just like in New York City in 1965, when a man beat and killed Kitty Genovese. Despite her screaming for help, moaning, and pleading, police determined that 33 people listened to her murder in their apartments and wouldn't even call the police for help as she died.

This shows that not even being in a crowd is safe. If society will not protect the citizen from goons, it is morally wrong to prevent that person from having the means to protect herself.

from: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... n-oshiwara


TV actress fights bag snatchers as gutless crowd watches
Nazia Sayed, Mumbai Mirror Aug 28, 2013, 12.00AM IST


Tags:
Women|Kaisa Yeh Ishq Hai

(Loveleen Kaur )
A television actor and her friend bravely fought off three men who assaulted them and snatched their purse as a crowd of about 10 to 15 people stood by and watched at a busy Oshiwara junction on Monday night.

The incident, which happened at 8.45 pm at a bustling traffic light on Linking Road behind Mega Mall, comes just five days after the gang rape of a 22-year-old in a central Mumbai mill compound put the spotlight on the safety of women in the city.

As the women fended off the assailants, who were slapping and kicking them, a passing police patrolling party saw the incident and arrested two of the muggers while the third managed to get away.

Loveleen Harinderpal Singh Sasan, 23, whose screen name is Loveleen Kaur, was going to the Lokhandwala market in an autorickshaw with her friend Mimin Chaudhary, 24, a banking professional. When the auto was at the Patliputra Nagar signal, a man snatched Kaur's purse, causing her to fall out of the auto.

As the thief was running away, the two women raised an alarm and started chasing him. But when the women caught up with the snatcher near Vijay Vishal building, two of his accomplices joined him and started hitting the women. As Kaur and her friend were fighting the thieves, a crowd gathered, but nobody helped them.

"The three of them started slapping and kicking us," Kaur said in her statement to the police. "But I did not let them go. I had only Rs 1,200 in the purse, but the amount did not matter. I just did not want the accused to get away with this. There were about 15 people around us. But all of them were merely watching. Nobody came to help us."

When TOI contacted Kaur and her friend, they declined to comment for this report. Kaur plays Rano in the serial Kaisa Yeh Ishq Hai which is airing on Life Ok channel. She has acted Bade Ache lagte Hai and Anamika on Sony in the past.

"Our marshals saw that a crowd was holding up the traffic on the road," said Nasir Pathan, senior inspector, Oshiwara police.

"First they thought it was an accident. But when they went closer, they saw the two women fighting off three men and shouting 'Chor! Chor!' Their first instinct was to catch the three men, but one of them managed to slip away. We were surprised that the crowd was just watching. Luckily, our constables reached in time and nabbed the accused."

Filmmaker Ashok Pandit, who witnessed the incident and tried to fend off the thugs till the police arrived, said it was "ridiculous to see the crowd just standing and watching who will win the fight."

Pandit readily agreed to testify against the thieves and identified the accused for the police. "It was strange to see two girls fighting out with criminals and a crowd just standing and waiting to see who wins," said Pandit. "It was ridiculous. The girls were badly hurt and had bruises all over their faces. I immediately took them to the hospital."

The police have identified the accused as Sajid Shah,25,and Mohammad Moazzam Ali,22,both residents of Goregaon.

The police said the two took up menial jobs to make ends meet and admitted to robbing people in the past. They also confessed to using drugs. A court remanded the two to three days in police custody.

"We have arrested two of the accused and are looking for the third," said Nasir Pathan, senior inspector, Oshiwara police. "We will nab him soon."

Re: Here we go again! We go over and over the same old story

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:14 am
by nagarifle
every time i open a newspaper i see rape, rape and more of the same.

police as whole care a little, leaders do not give a hoot. as most of the police is guarding the leaders, as the case in MAHRASTRA where an RTI showed that over 50% of the police is guarding the VIPs of our society.

so its every man/women for themselves.

the bottom line is either spend six in jail and get elected in the parliament or get burred in deep six.

sadly that is what we are left with.