Page 1 of 3

Non-immigrant gun ownership laws in the US

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:47 am
by trigger_time
Hi,

In case it is of interest, I am posting below an interpretation of US law that makes it possible for a non-US citizen to legally own a firearm in the US. Please excuse the length of the post, as it conatins legalese that is best copied and pasted unchanged from the original document.

Sources:
1. http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm (US BATF website)
2. 18 USC (United States Code, roughly the US equivalent of IPC)

Whatever is within double quotes in the text below is copied directly from these documents, except bold text, which is stuff I have inserted.

Starting off, first the bad news: (this part is from the BATF website)

"(B5) Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition? [Back]
Yes, a person who –
(sections 1-4 excluded)
(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
(sections 6-10 excluded) "

Now, dont get disheartened, because soon after, comes the first ray of hope:

"(B13) May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?[Back]
An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.
See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.
[18 U.S.C. 921, 922(b)(3), (d) and (g), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.99(a)]"

So, looks like things may work out, after all, huh. More good news when you scroll all the way down to section R of the BATF FAQ website (by the way, I suggest reading this section thoroughly, as it is almost all relevant to this topic):

"R. NONIMMIGRANT ALIENS

(R1) May nonimmigrant aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States?

Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States.

There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows:

1. nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid (unexpired) hunting license or permit lawfully issued by a State in the United States;

2. nonimmigrant aliens entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization devoted to the collection, competitive use or other sporting use of firearms;

3. certain diplomats, if the firearms are for official duties;

4. officials of foreign governments, if the firearms are for official duties, or distinguished foreign visitors so designated by the U.S. State Department;

5. foreign law enforcement officers of friendly foreign governments entering the United States on official law enforcement business; and

6. persons who have received a waiver from the prohibition from the U.S. Attorney General.

Significantly, even if a nonimmigrant alien falls within one of these exceptions, the nonimmigrant alien CANNOT purchase a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) unless he or she (1) has an alien number or admission number from the Department of Homeland Security (formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service) AND (2) can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 consecutive days immediately prior to the firearms transaction.

[18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(b) and 922(y), 27 CFR 478.124, ATF Rul. 2004-1] "

OK, now notice the last line above: it refers to 18 USC 922 . The relevant subsections are copy/pasted below:

"(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—

(sections 1-4 excluded)

(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));

(sections 6-9 excluded)

to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.


(y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant Visas.—
(1) Definitions.— In this subsection—
(A) the term “alien” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(3)); and
(B) the term “nonimmigrant visa” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)).
(2) Exceptions.— Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;
(B) an official representative of a foreign government who is—
(i) accredited to the United States Government or the Government’s mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or
(ii) en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;
(C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or
(D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business."

Now, taken together, the huge amount of text above basically says, if you have been in the US for more than 180 days on a valid non-immigrant visa, have established residence in a US state, obtained a valid hunting license, have an alien number or admission number issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service or the Department of Homeland Security, and are not otherwise prohibited by law from owning a firearm, a US FFL may sell you a gun unless he or she declines for personal reasons. My dealer friend says it is usually not a problem, but you may have to go through a waiting period, which is a small price to pay for the safety of legally being on safe ground.

Finally, some caveats:

1. I am a scientist, not a lawyer. The above interpretation is my personal one and should not be construed as legal advice. If at all in doubt, consult a good attorney; however, feel free to use my research as a starting point.

2. Given the the Virginia Tech idiot has put international students who like guns (like myself) into a stereotype as a whole , you may want to take my advice and think long and deep before you buy a gun in the United States. The rental option always exists, but then again that is entirely your choice.

3. The acquisition of a US hunting license is an entirely different topic from this one. If you are interested, let me know and I will tell you how to get started on it.

That being said, wish my fellow Indian gun lovers in the US all the best. Keep it safe, follow the Four Commandments, and happy shooting!

Shurjo

Re: Non-immigrant gun ownership laws in the US

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:40 am
by penpusher
Shurjo,

Thanks for posting this.So aliens in USA have more freedom in the matter of the acquisition of a firearm than Indian's in India :cry:

penpusher

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:48 pm
by eljefe
Bravo Shurjo.
Best
axx

Re: Non-immigrant gun ownership laws in the US

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:36 am
by msandhu
Hi ,
Its true that non-immirant aliens can legally buy and posses guns in US if they have valid hinting licence and also they have been residing in that state for over 90 days but good luck with finding a dealer who is wiling to go through the paperwork to sell the gun.
There might be some deales but most of them avoid selling guns to non-immigrant alients only because of extra paperwork and checks...
If you know of some FFL who does that , let me know...
Regards
Mandeep

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:57 am
by trigger_time
Hi Mandeep,

Give me till this weekend and I will go talk to the guy I spoke about and see what his position is on an out-of-state transfer. He does charge $30 extra for the added paperwork, though.

Re: Non-immigrant gun ownership laws in the US

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:02 am
by msandhu
Hi Shurjo,
Thanks for your offer. I called a few dealers today around PA and one of them knows about these rules and has agreed to deal with me. I am going this weekend to talk with him and hope to return with my own handgun.
Cheers
Mandeep

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:33 am
by trigger_time
Way to go, Mandeep. Can I ask if you have a model in mind?

Cheers,

Shurjo

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:04 am
by Sakobav
Shurjo

Great effort

Mandeep

Do look up local gun laws remember City county ordnances sometimes are different from state laws. So double check and go to a reputed Gun Store. Why dont you drive down to Cabelas near Harrisburg on I 78. Take Penn Tpike northern to Allentown and jump on I 78. My 2c best of luck

Rgds

Re: Non-immigrant gun ownership laws in the US

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:08 pm
by msandhu
Hi,
I have checked with ATF Philadelphia office and they told me that the gun laws in PA are same as Fedral laws. The dealer that i talked with is Target World in Chalfont and its not too far from where i live.

www.targetworldinc.com

I am looking to buy SA XD45. If you have better suggestions, let me know
Cheers
Mandeep

Re: Non-immigrant gun ownership laws in the US

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:50 am
by trigger_time
ngrewal,

Thanks, man. A lot of the credit goes to my friend Chris Faulk, who got tired of me dragging him to the range so I could shoot his guns.

msandhu,

XD45 is a good choice (14 rounds of 45ACP...should stop the meanest of muggers :D )

Let me know how the purchase goes,

Regards,

Shurjo

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:01 am
by Sakobav
Guys

Just passing the nuggets of wisdom I got from others here foremost follow the rules to the T..

Shurjo - Max capacity of Magazine can only be 10 per Fed rules.

Mandeep

One of the members here Naren has Sig Sauer P220R DAK .45 ACP
http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=266

Then the glocks, HK, CZ and Other option is the classic 1911 .45 but read Grumpy's feedback on a seperate thread here.

Do fire the gun on range to check out the feel.






All the best

Re: Non-immigrant gun ownership laws in the US

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:55 am
by msandhu
Hi ngrewal,
Just a quick update on max capacity of pistol magzine.-- it used to be fed rule but it has been revoked few years ago. But there are still some states which have max- capacity for magazine rules like CA, NY etc
Here is list of some states and cities where these rules apply

http://www.ordnancedirect.com/restrictions.html

A few weeks ago we bought a beretta 92FS ( 9mm) for my cousin and that dealer told us that now there is no limit on magazine capacity in PA.
I have tried Glock 21, glock 19 , SA XD40 and beretta 92 in the range. All the pistols were nice but i found glock 21 to be little big for me ( in size) . In comparison SA XD40 fits much better and i can shoot better with that.
I will try to test with XD45 ( if they have for rental) before i buy it.
Cheers
Mandeep

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:29 am
by monstersva
hi guys,
my friend wants to buy a handgun but can't find dealer in VA that would sell him the gun. If anyone knows of a dealer that would work with non-immigrant, please let me know. Oh maybe even in other states also, that way maybe the dealer in VA can call the dealer in other states to get some sort of clarification.
Thanks in advance...

Re: Non-immigrant gun ownership laws in the US

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:19 pm
by msandhu
Hi,
You can have the dealer call the local ATF office and let ATF give clarification on rules and regulations regarding sale of guns to non-immigrants. Dealers from other state cannot sell your friend a gun since your friend will need a residency of 90 days in that state. Also some states have extra rules for non-immigrants which might be different from fedral rules and an out of state dealer might not know them.
Your best bet is to show the rules to the dealer and then let them check with ATF regarding the sale
Cheers
Mandeep

Re: Non-immigrant gun ownership laws in the US

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:32 pm
by Pran
penpusher";p="19511 wrote:Shurjo,

Thanks for posting this.So aliens in USA have more freedom in the matter of the acquisition of a firearm than Indian's in India :cry:

penpusher
Sad state of affairs..
:(
Pran