Indians For Guns

NAGRI invites all members to please let us know what changes citizens/ gunowners would like to see in the Arms Act 1959.

Lets see how many suggestions we can get on this thread within the next 3 days!

Preliminary suggestions:

1) The application criteria should be objective & clear, to ensure the process is free of fear or favour. For e.g. unless someone is disqualified from holding an arms license (someone who has been convicted of a violent crime and is applying within 3 years of his/ her sentence getting over, someone who has a history of mental illness) every citizen who should be issued a NPB arms license without having to supply any documents other than proof of residence & ID as well as police verification.

2) Arms licenses once issued, should be valid for the lifetime of the holder, unless the authorities can prove that the holder is a possible threat to public safety. Extra fees may be charged from the applicant for this (lifetime validity).

3) There should be no possible attempt to create an elite class within the law, who are treated differently. This should be made clear in the Act itself, so no further attempts are made to create a class system.

4) Ammunition quotas should be done away with. The law already provides for monthly sales returns being submitted by dealers as well as quarterly returns - if the local law enforcement detects any unusually large purchases, they are always free to investigate the same.

5) All licenses once issued should be valid within the entire Union of India. There are already restrictions as to certain places where one cannot carry a firearm - these are sufficient. Other than this, if someone is considered responsible enough to carry a firearm within his/ her district - there is no logical reason to expect him/ her to be any different when he/ she travels elsewhere.

6) There should be no requirement for an arms license holder to register himself/ herself with the local police, within 48 hours of arriving in a new jurisdiction. This is akin to treating license holders, like criminals! This is anyway never followed, and merely ensures added legal hurdles & avoidable corruption.

7) Anyone issued an arms license, should automatically be entitled to purchase/ hold any 3 NPB firearms of his/ her choice - without having to go through the same process repeatedly.

8 ) There should be no upper limit on the total no. of Arms Licenses a citizen can hold. If someone is responsible enough to hold one, he will be responsible with 30 or even 300!

9) The restrictions on calibres under category 1(c) of Schedule I of the Arms Rules 1962, should be done away with. This is a throwback to the British colonial era, when the colonial government fearing another mutiny (akin to 1857) decided that restricting the ownership of military calibres amongst citizens, would ensure that mutineers would not be able to procure ammunition from the civilian population. We have no such situation now, if we wish to change the government of the day, we can simply vote them out - hence this is an archaic regulation which only creates corruption!

10) The restriction on holding semi-auto long guns under category 1 (b) of Schedule I of the Arms Rules 1962, should either be completely removed OR the licensing for the same should be delegated to the local licensing authority, as it used to be earlier. An exception should however, still be made for semi-auto shotguns & rimfire rifles - as these are low powered arms useful only for sport and/ or recreational shooting.

More suggestions are invited from all.... NAGRI will ensure that at the very least - all sensible suggestions will be heard by those who matter, so please feel free to add to the above list.

Keep it brief and give logical reasons for each suggestion.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

I Would like to have the Import ban lifted so that we can regulate the exorbitant prices of used market.
P.S : i always dream to have a ppk @ 500$ instead of 11lac here

Import restrictions are part of the EXIM policy and not the Arms Act... but I know how you feel!

That is a very exhaustive list Abhijeet. I really can’t think of anything else part from what Architectharsha mentioned above.

* Import of firearms ammo should be opened because it will end monopoly of IOF and will force them to improve quality of their products. Government can earn substantial amount of money from duty collection.

* Duty free import of ammo for all sportspersons to reduce cost of practice. It will encourage more people to take firearm shooting (Apart from airgun ) as a sport.

-Inder

Edit: Oops I just noticed that you already answered Harsha's post so my post also become invalid.

Abhijeet,You have started a topic that I daydream of all the time! You have covered most of my wishes but some more stuff:
1.Make every person applying for a license get training in the safe handling of firearms.
2. Reduce the age for procuring NPB long guns from 21 years to 18 years(like in the USA)( especially for
.22 rifles and shotguns) to encourage young shooters.
3. The arms license itself must be no more than a document that proves that the licensee is not a
juvenile, a criminal or mentally ill person and is capable of handling firearms safely (note this does
not mean to disqualify any handicapped people, merely to make sure that safety is complied with).
4. The background check must not take more than 30 days, and the issuing authority must not be the
Police, it should be the Judiciary so as to prevent corruption and discretionary issue of licenses.
5.For the sake of practicality, once the license is granted, any firearms procured must be entered in a
register against the license along with serial numbers, this must be done with ease with
no hassles and must be maintained by a civil authority with access only to Law enforcement &
Arms Dealers so that they can verify if the firearm is genuine/not used in a crime etc.
6. No deposit of firearms under any circumstances, except in case criminal activity!
7. Allow import of reloading components in addition to firearms & ammo without requiring a separate
import license.
8. Since the firearms on any licensee's name will be entered in the register, and no ammo quotas,there
would be no reason to have a license booklet, we could all have plastic smart cards with either
biometric data or other security features.
9. The list of all licensees must be kept absolutely confidential and decentralized and access must be
given only to Police during a specific investigation and to Dealers to check if the license is genuine.
This must be available by phone through secure systems like in the US.
10. Better enforcement of laws so that no criminal intimidation takes place, especially during elections.
11. Allow online applications with copies of documents.Physical verification of documents and picture
and biometric data should be given at the Civil Court. at the time of applying.
12. Allow Conservation/Controlled Hunting under strict regulation & import of trophies.
13. Remove some of the stuff in PB list, especially old .303 rifles and .455 revolvers.
14. Any Officer causing difficulty to an applicant because of bias,prejudice or other illegal reason must
be punished.
15. So that NPB Arms are not denied to the common man, IOF manufactured firearms must be sold at cost/heavily
subsidized
Regards,
Anand

Keep in mind:
Criminal will not follow the law no matter how many you make.
Only law abiding citizens will follow the law.


I like Abhijeets list but there are somethings that I change if it was my list:

The whole NPB/PB thing is a joke. There should be no restrictions in what commercially available arms you can or cannot hold.
It started because the British were afraid that the common man would be supplied with ammunition by mutinous soldiers. So now Indian citizens are being penalized because the government fears that it will be unable to keep track of its ammunition supplies? That's crap!

There should also be no restriction on the number of arms that you can own. The three weapon rule is useless and once again only law abiding citizens will follow rules like that.
If they are law-abiding, why does anyone care how many weapons they own?

No import restrictions in the sale of sporting and self defense weapons or ammunition for them. Force IOF to compete. Open the market to the private sector. Let the free market choose the winners.
That is the only way you will make Indian goods world class.

Make people responsible for the misuse of firearms. If you cant show justification for a self defense shooting, you go to jail. Simple. Enforce that.

The courts must make be able to provide the citizen with relief, if they are wrongly denied. Make the department responsible for the denial pay the court costs if they lose the case brought by the citizen.
This is actually done in Minnesota. Without some kind of teeth in the law, nothing will change.

If you are legally entitled to an arms license, it's none of the anyone's business what weapons you have. Register your weapons? What good does registering a law abiding citizens weapon do? They are almost never used in crimes. You just waste a tremendous amount of resources and money trying to maintain the list. Ask the Canadian government; they still don't have everyone registered and they's been at it for years and the population is nothing compared to India's population. Also none of this "deposit your weapon because of the election" or other worthless excuses.

If the police really need to do something to reduce gun deaths then they may introduce that the applicant do a safety course sort of a thing first.

Its needed in a place where people fire in the air in crowded cities and carrying a loaded gun is considered a status symbol in villages.

Also its give and take.

Realistcally we are asking a lot compared to the old rules, giving something in return esp something that benefits us as shooters and the shooting reputation in general is worth it.

How about reloading and making available powder, primers, bullets, equipments etc... or at least allow the import of such.

The privates sector should be allowed development and manufacture of firearm types beyond SBBLs, DBBLs, SBMLs & DBMLs.

As per provisions in current arms act (!!!) non governmental proofing houses should be allowed.

A proofing standard should be put in place by a third party...maybe BSI? The details should be transparent and clear. Perhaps India can join that international Proofing organisation... forgot which one.

... thats all I can think of in a hurry....

So folks what are more realistic rules

for example unlimited gun or certain number guns say 10 , dont issue guns to criminals say under certain penal codes 307, causing bodily harm, kidnapping, especially domestic violence, no assault guns or higher caliber semi autos, ammo restrictions need to be done away , defense forces/para-military/police folks can hold on to their NPB and PB guns , black powder gun require no license, agree with CC points too..

Abhijeet,

A very comprehensive list.For suggestion at Sr.No.3 to be implemented there is a need to remove Section 41 of the Arms Act.

1) Open carry / concealed carry be allowed for handguns.

Abhijeet and everybody has pretty much covered everything else.

Strongly, rather very strongly recommend Anand's and shooter's point no. 1

1.Make every person applying for a license get training in the safe handling of firearms.

Regards

Very Comprehensive List Abhijeet, Kudos.
Want to addon just one thing.

A mininum of 10 hours per annum of gun training/refresher under supervision by a certified trainer required for all License holders.

Thomas

1)The renewal process/period of arms licences should be reduced/simplified,or simply done away with!
2)Reverification of arms licesces during renewal should be done away with.(unless ofcourse some criminal activities are suspected)
3)Revision of the PB arms list(case in point- the .410 calibre Indian musket,which is NOT interchangable with .410 cal. shotshells)
I don't agree with ngrewal on the following points:-
a)issue of licesces for semi autos
b)assault rifles(I hope I'm right in thinking he means semi auto assault rifles,which are not capable of full auto fire)
I don't agree with him because fire arms are all inherently lethal,be it a muzzle loader black powder weapon or a semi auto weapon,and it doesn't make sense in banning these class of weapons,which by extention could mean banning revolvers and pistols as well,as pistols too are self loading!!!!

I agree completely. Many instances of a person who had just got an arms license but knows jack about guns in general and safe gun handling in particular.

I want to add :

Leave out air rifles and air pistols from the Arms Act. Air guns should be free and continue to be free as they are now.

This is THE ONLY entry or avenue for all new comers to shooting sports in our country.

M.

thomast1 wrote:Very Comprehensive List Abhijeet, Kudos.
Want to addon just one thing.

A mininum of 10 hours per annum of gun training/refresher under supervision by a certified trainer required for all License holders.

Thomas

1) Current arms ammendment should be scrap immediately.

2) Mandatory shooting range & training facility in every state....ex service man, police people, and volenteer shooters, and anyother to help...

3) A book on safety with fire arms & other weapons, holding, carrying, using, selfdefence, firing...should be covered..

4) 1 varification for all - Arms licence, bank account, driving licence, passport, pan number, or any other import thing..(To be reviewed as per need)

5) insted of bulky arms book, a cr.card type, can be issued... (Ease of carrying & longer life), like car registration..

6) And rather creating a national data for gun owners, creat data for unlicenced weapons...

Very nice thread...)))cheers!!!