IFG Members support for RKBA PIL

[eternalme]

The million dollar question is -

When are we going to file the PIL ? I had a lawyer sometime back who was willing to do that immediately after the mumbai attacks.
I shared the same here but we couldn't gather enough points that time, hope we form some solid points this time, quoting stats, and reasons as to why the present arms law is like this (becasue of 1857 mutiny) and even after freedom it hasn't changes a bit.
We are still singing in our law books 'long live the queen' , for if we are not, then how come everything is exact replica of the way its done in the UK.
Hope father of the constitution won't file a case against me for this point.

Neverthless the point stays valid and loud, UK is now practicing very strict gun control and we are living the same.
But then we are not UK, there are as many illegal firearms and criminal around, on top of that the criminal are growing , few colleges in the north have become the factories for producing some fine specimen.
The ideals of these people are Babl** singh, Ch**b** singh, Mu**a Baj**** , Mu**tar A**ari and they refer to these gems of society as their bhai.

Their bhais ,in order to strenghten their position and stronghold for vasooli then grant official issue imported handgun to their favourite one while others have to do with desi 'jeep steering rod barrel ' specimen.

In kanpur every fifth guy can probably point a gun at you if you are around DarshanPurwa, Chowk, P-road, Heera manka Purwa etc locations.

Some of these guys travel to metros for business and bring along with them their worthy posession.
Now we have a situation, there are people with arms and intention to use as well, with no fear of having to abandon a very expensive piece or being traced by the bullet signature.



Now story of the Milch Cow -

Oe fine day a die-hard nationalist, a regular tax payer (a milch cow for the stablishment) is sleeping inside his house, when he hears a loud bang and a pistol goes off, he peeps from the window and sees someone being looted/beaten/tortured but becasue his balls have been cut off with the law, all he can do is hide behind the curtain and cover his children and wife.Calls the cops who shower him with 100 question instead of immediately arriving, and even after arriving they come first to the milch cows house ,making sure everyone knows that he was the one to call the cops.The bad guys will next time target the milch cow first.

Pretty good life eh ?

A group of milch cows are entertaining in a hotel after a days hard work and some "Anal polyps" (Borrowed term) pop up and pump some armour piercing rounds in their bodies, poor ones ran here and there but no one came to help, they couldn't help themselves as the law had made provisions such that in case of an attack like this the milch cow couldn't help but die a sorry death. Some were trapped inside the hotel for days, Animal farm media and news papers were abalaze with the story but then every one is busy chewing the fodder, noone give a heed to the long gone Milch Cows ,for, there are plenty more to bank upon and collect the precious milk (Tax).

Every one in the Animal farm is important except the Milch cow breed, new taxes are planned based on how good the milch cow is making milk so that she can be milked more, new schemes are launched to cut her fodder a bit more, and surprisingly no grant, nothing comes to the poor milch cow, though it goes for industries, irrigation,fertilizers, and god knows what other things.

Milch cow is step child, does the best to get the worst.

End of Milch cow story -----

A middle class tax payer's thought process --
<<
When will my government treat me like human for gods sake? if I pay for service I receive it, If I pay my god-damn taxes I want it count.

It's my money and noone provided any help in my education, my job and my upbringing . I never lived on ration food, Never went to public school, don't go to government hospital for fear of getting some other infection.
I pay the road tax, pay electricity bill, pay water bill, pay house tax which I own , pay sale tax, pay service tax, pay education cess, pay tax for everything except breathing and yet have to pay income tax as if my income process is somehow supported by the government.
And yet my life is in gods hands, police man will not teat me with respect though I pay for his salary, some other refer to me "Bloody civilian" while drinking subsidised wine brought from my earnings.
If I am going to some urgent work i might be stopped for an hour becasue some representative of the public is passing and is having z class security.
Oh yes I have a new budget coming lets hope there is something for me in there, after all I pay some good taxs, the government must atleast be as honest as a business or service provider and render.
>>

With imputs from some milch cows.

[aarkay]

hello ifgians we need to file the pil as soon as possible.while good law abiding citizens like us have to live at the mercy of cops to our safety criminals dont need anybodys permission to hurt or kill a person.while some of the people have arms licence others are denied this basic right to security of self and property.this is also a kind of discrimination.every citizen in u.s.has a right to have a gun if he is law abiding and dont have a previous record of criminal activities.we also have to allow imports of good quality fire arms.in u.s.a. you can buy a decent semi auto pistol for 500 dollars here we are paying more than seventy thousand for a cheap pistol from iof.is this fair.let the government allow people to import arms with a minimum price of 500 dollars.even if they levy an import duty of 100% it will cost us less than what we buy here for astronomical sum for an old imported fire arm.my cousin is a practicing lawyer of the supreme cort of india. i am going to ask her to file a pil regarding this issues we have.ifgians please help me with vital statistics like incidents of crimes where innocent people were harmed or killed by hoods because of not having theeir own protection or the inabilityof cops to protect them etc.also provide me with sale prices of old imported fire arms doing the rounds in our country.

[goodboy_mentor]

aarkay,

Please see the following links, if they help:

http://cid-eda3387d0c647134.skydrive.li ... px/.Public

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 2&start=92

http://disarmament.un.org/cab/bms3/1BMS ... 02008.html (Report submitted by Government of India accepting majority of crimes are committed by illegal weapons.)

[ScoutSniper]

I'm with you guys on this!!

Both obtaining a license and importing guns is a PITA


At least allow us to import airsoft guns without NRAI memberships!!

[ssmickey.32]

...long awaited century up with my vote ... 101 YES votes...

what next.... ???

best regards...

ssmickey.32

[Zoo]

I'm in. Will try and help out however I can.

[ravi.sharma]

Hello Guys,

Wasnt able to Login for few days due to work. Congratulations, to all to complete the century, though we have to go more far than this.

Muthu: first of all let me thank you to at least express your views instead of just Voting for "NO". I was suppose to write a long essay to make you understand the importance of GUN in each and everyone's life but that very nicely has been written by Vikram ("Right to Protection") and i would strongly suggest you to refer it once and re-consider your voting option. Please do post your feedback once you you are done reading the entire thing. http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7486

Eternalme:

The million dollar question is -

When are we going to file the PIL ?

The PIL will take time, we cannot afford to rush into it and be rejected outrightedly, It has to be done in a effective manner and with support of lots of people form different states. As of now i can just inform you that efforts are being put to streamline the entire task, which undoubtebly is taking time considering the moment is big in itself. The best point is that, people like you are comming forward with helping hands, which makes the difference. Hope so the next update would be much detailed.


Ravi.

[MehtaRahulC]

.

I licensing process to be as easy as US, or even easier.

But I am against imports.

We should also ease licenses and promote local manufacturing of guns. This will improve mechanical skills of Indians, and also increase employment. Just as guns are important for individuals, weapon manufacturing skills are important for nation. If we allow imports, individuals will have guns but nation will not get weapon manufacturing skills.

.

[cottage cheese]

.

I licensing process to be as easy as US, or even easier.

But I am against imports.

We should also ease licenses and promote local manufacturing of guns. This will improve mechanical skills of Indians, and also increase employment. Just as guns are important for individuals, weapon manufacturing skills are important for nation. If we allow imports, individuals will have guns but nation will not get weapon manufacturing skills.

.

Actually if one looks objectively, the licensing process as per the Arms Act 1959, is in theory, pretty fair and 'liberal'. The Arms Rules 1962 kind of plays wet-blanket by putting too much discretionary powers on the licensing authority and the government as a whole. Bucket loads of Notifications and circulars from the MHA and other departments with the resultant amendments to the act over the years has indeed turned the whole process into a confused morass ideal for idiots who like to feel powerful or have the urge for monetary incentives. What we should be striving for is a fair and level-headed execution of the provisions of the Arms Act, free from draconian discretionary powers, whimsical assumptions and undue influence... Perhaps a campaign for a more lucid definition of the right to defense and perhaps the idea that gun ownership be regarded as a right, by the establishment.

A more system more liberal than in the US (Generally implying No regulation) may not as yet be suited for a country as diverse and transitional as ours.

Actually, moderately controlled imports will be good for the industry in India....after all without a benchmark to compete against we'll continue to be happy with second best...or third best... or fourth best or worse.

Quite simply, competition is healthy.

We have the skills, we have the material, we don't have good laws and we don't have the drive.

Also, non-state arms industry's progress or lack of is more to do with the industrial policy rather than arms policy.

regards,
cc

[Sujay]

.

I licensing process to be as easy as US, or even easier.

But I am against imports.

We should also ease licenses and promote local manufacturing of guns. This will improve mechanical skills of Indians, and also increase employment. Just as guns are important for individuals, weapon manufacturing skills are important for nation. If we allow imports, individuals will have guns but nation will not get weapon manufacturing skills.

.

Mr Rahul,

Can you cite even one example where by stopping imports, some goods /articles manufacturing skills was improved in India and taken to world class level ?

Also can you explain why the quality of firearms manufactured in North America/Europe etc is miles ahead of Indian makes ? Is it because they all have prohibited imports from other countries ?

(BTW, "Increasing Employment" to put plainly is a communist's crap.)

[chucky]

.

I licensing process to be as easy as US, or even easier.

But I am against imports.

We should also ease licenses and promote local manufacturing of guns. This will improve mechanical skills of Indians, and also increase employment. Just as guns are important for individuals, weapon manufacturing skills are important for nation. If we allow imports, individuals will have guns but nation will not get weapon manufacturing skills.

.

Mr Rahul,

Can you cite even one example where by stopping imports, some goods /articles manufacturing skills was improved in India and taken to world class level ?

Also can you explain why the quality of firearms manufactured in North America/Europe etc is miles ahead of Indian makes ? Is it because they all have prohibited imports from other countries ?

(BTW, "Increasing Employment" to put plainly is a communist's crap.)

competition is a clarion call for the asleep. Even a Pakistani General who is accusing India of supporting terrorists says, " no one will carry a Indian made gun in combat". Its not a compliment, its a flat out insult.

[goodboy_mentor]

Can we have a meet somewhere in Delhi to discuss something result oriented? Because things have been discussed over and over again at this website, I think time has come to act. What about getting an appointment for meeting with Hon'ble Home Minister and submitting a memorandum?

[nagarifle]

athoy boy

[Risala]

Can we have a meet somewhere in Delhi to discuss something result oriented? Because things have been discussed over and over again at this website, I think time has come to act. What about getting an appointment for meeting with Hon'ble Home Minister and submitting a memorandum?

Some of us meet often....in fact this afternoon we caught up for lunch.......in this case why dont you take the initiative and lead the effort

[eternalme]

Hi,

why don't you ask him to join the "some of us" group, won't tax anyone ,as long as he pays his bills

Regards

-- Fri Nov 06, 2009 19:34 --

Hi Guys,

I suggest meeting PM or sending group of delegates and present him pics of innocent people killed in mumbai as a reminder that the scene could have been different, had there been licensed firearms around.

No-one thinks about attacking an armed crowd, atleast not in 'walk and push trigger' manner.

Its a very practical observation, we saw that at VT when some anal polyps (borrowed term) were met with resistance they turned back, had there been other small resistence along the way the story would have been different.

In general, public in india is scared of such things, we are brought up in such an environment that in most of sample groups the alpha male is missing.

And that helps me in understanding how a nation can be so cowardly that since 1857, the people never ever came up agiainst or for something worthy.

That is another thing we can sing that in 10,000 years we didn't attack any country , true , for- we were first of all not an united country for a long time, then mughals and british.
We actually didn't have time and position to be assertive about our points ,on personal as well as on national levels.

We keep complaining to other countries about pakistan issue, as if others are god-fathers or something.
This is the root of problem, which is evident on the national level as well.
we don't have proper licensing ,for, we lake the alpha male in small social groups who actually feels the need to protect his loved ones and is proactive , who can raise the voice,Who can ask questions.

And hence street dogs keep on showing their teeth to any one around.

So alpha males around wake up and roar, you are the hope for this nation and this society, don't stay busy with petty things, Shaheed Chandra shekhar 'Azad', Shaheed Bhagat singh were in their early twenties when they proved their point, what hapened to the youth of India ?
Did British made sure to screw the education in such a way that no Alpha more alpha males are produced , its either clerk element, Greedy element or Gunda element.
Desh bhakt element has evaporated somewhere.

Been to mumbai recently , sorry guys.

BTW : Street dogs are gunda elements or stupids who threaten poor and weeker sections and enjoy virtual sense of power, these people are also the best butter provider, I have seen them licking political tails all the time.

-- Fri Nov 06, 2009 19:57 --

Guys,

I was at the a political party's head office while some political nominations were being held.

And all our 'not so necessary politicians' had the kind of security inside the campus that I wondered if these people think security in their own country is not a problem, then why they need so much security ?The borders are secure (DON'T THEY HAVE A BUDGET FROM OUR TAXES ?) they are popular leaders (THEY ARE ELCETED OFFCOURSE) , so noone is gonna kill them, and if they are killed by their own people, its democracy, atlease people should have chance to erase some of the mistakes they made .


When popular leaders with no fierce issues need security like that ,let alone a normal person, who actually goes out alone in street full of rouge elements, rapists ready to jump on any single woman who dares to walk out of her house in wee hours.

Security is when you leave your house and be sure you will find it the way you left it, security is when your daughter is late without any obvious reason and your heart doesn't tremble, security is when you wear all jwellery you have and don't have to think even once about it. Security is when you have a life which is free from fear and dogs around.