When guns are outlawed

Discussions on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
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mundaire
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When guns are outlawed

Post by mundaire » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:07 pm

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/bowman3.html
...To put the 262 million murders in more conceptual terms, consider that if one takes a random walk through the entire set of murdered men, women, and children, more than 9 out of 10 murders across all times and all nations, were perpetrated, not by civilian criminals, but by criminal thugs operating under the auspice or directive of government to murder its own people, generally those who oppose the government or who oppose the politically well-connected or who own what the government covets for itself. If deaths due to war – what many currently believe is the greatest threat to life and limb – are included in the set, then still over 4 out of 5 violent deaths (83%) are the result of murder by the host government with the remaining 17% comprised by 11% war casualties and 6% civilian murder. Yet, while totalitarianism, foreign invasion, and civilian crime – the primary historic threats to everyone's safety – all arise for a vast array of reasons, there is, fortunately, at least one thing that is proven to prevent or mitigate all of these to a very high degree: widespread gun ownership by the civilian population.

Therefore, if one cares about one's own personal safety or that for one's children, family, and neighbors, then there is no substitute for a well-armed society....
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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by tingriman » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:43 pm

Very strong pro-gun argument, thank you mundaire for sharing,

regards,
tingriman

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by farhan.lateefi » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:49 pm

Thanks for sharing.. very well said

regards
farhan
''The great object is, that every man be armed.... Every one who is able may have a gun."

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by ravi.sharma » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:51 pm

Hi Mundaire,

That's a great article, i hope it serves as a eye opener to the Anti's.

:cheers:
Ravi.
Believing Everybody is Dangerous; Believing Nobody is Very Dangerous..........

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by Sakobav » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:31 am

Thats pretty 'Quantative ' hard hitting and humbling stat

Best

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by kanwar76 » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:45 am

so where is all the clamoring from the "I-want-my-children-to-be-safe" crowd for bans on automobiles? There ain't any because this brand of stupidity is emotional, not rational.

And thats the biggest problem with anti's.... :roll:
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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by russcelt » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:17 am

Exactly!
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by xl_target » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:07 am

There ain't any because this brand of stupidity is emotional, not rational.
Exactly, Kanwar76.
With most anti's nowadays, their fears have got nothing to do with facts. It all about "feelings".
I was watching an interview on TV where one woman proudly proclaimed that she got physically sick if there was a gun in the same room with her. What the...? It's an inanimate object.
With an educational system and the commercial media really pushing their anti-gun agendas, they have instilled, in many people, a totally irrational fear of guns.
Only patience on our part and careful instruction will help erase that fear.

I recently had a visitor who had expressed some interest in guns but they said that they were afraid of guns. Prior to this we had been to the range and fired my guns so I had covered safe gun handling and tried to get them to memorize the four rules. I had stood behind them as they fired and coached them through the process. I showed them how to hold it, explained how the sights worked, how to load a magazine, how to pull the trigger, etc. They had fun and we left all smiles. When we got back to my house,we had a conversation that went something like this:

Me: Did you like that?
They: Oh yes but I'm a little afraid of the gun.
Me: Why are you afraid?
They: I'm afraid it might just go off

Since this was in my house, I brought one of my pistols down and despite the fear shown on their face, I disassembled it. I then showed them the various safety's like the automatic firing pin block, etc and showed them how it could not fire unless the trigger was pulled all the way back. Then I re-assembled the gun and set it down on the table in front of them after showing them it was empty. I then told them to think of the gun as a tool and brought a hammer and set it on the table beside the gun.

Me: are you still afraid of the gun?
They: A little
Me: Why are you still afraid of it?
They: I'm not sure
Me: Are you afraid of this hammer?
They: No
Me: You are not afraid that this hammer will suddenly jump up by itself and start pounding nails?
They (with a smile): I think I understand what you are getting at.
Me: You see the gun is a tool. It's how you use or don't use a tool that matters. It's also impossible for it to go off if it's just sitting there.

Using logic and the facts in a calm manner without pointing fingers or making fun of anyone is what we need to erase these irrational fears.
I especially try to show people how the mechanism works (most IT geeks love this) so next time they read the usual uninformed reporters version of a story, they can see for themselves how it's wrong.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by m24 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:10 am

That, xl, as coined by late Jeff Cooper, is called Hoplophobia. Hoplophobia (pronounced /ˌhɒplɵˈfoʊbiə/), from the Greek hoplon, or weapon, is defined as the "fear of firearms" or alternatively, an irrational fear of weapons in general, and describes a specific phobia. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia

The licensing authorities here have been diagnosed with a bad case of hoplophobia.

Regards
Last edited by m24 on Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jeff Cooper advocated four basic rules of gun safety:
1) All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.
4) Identify your target, and what is behind it.

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by ravi.sharma » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:57 pm

Hi XL,

That's a great Job Done. You provided them with, what the doctor ordered for.

Would like to use this Funda with few, I know. Thanks for Sharing.
:cheers:
Ravi.
Believing Everybody is Dangerous; Believing Nobody is Very Dangerous..........

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by Zake » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:06 pm

Nice point really, most people are afraid of guns and knives in general. Not only that I have seen and interacted with people who considers that people who keeps these kinds of object or like these objects has an evil streak or they are strangely violent.

I remember when I started collecting knives, my first two were from Jonah. Beautiful babies. After receiving them , I proudly showed off to a friend who's reaction was "WoW, this is huge ! Why did u buy something so dangerous u can hurt someone with it." When I pointed out that the same can be said about his new car, he became quit but the discomfort was quite visible in his face.

But the fear is quite illogical if you think about it. He knows me for decades. We have been buddies since high school. And I'm not an emotional person let alone violent. He knows that perhaps better than anyone. Yet he is afraid of me (I have to consider he smart enough to know that the knife can't get up and bite him). Most people are like my friend. They get scared for no logical reason. But if we can work with them, familiarize these people with guns and knives and show them just like xl that these machines or tools are not dangerous if they are in capable hands. In fact they can actually save lives when called upon. I believe the general public will understand and out grow this irrational fear.

Or so I hope.

Regards,

Zake

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by MoA » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:16 am

Personally.. if guns kill people, spoons make people fat. :cheers:

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Re: When guns are outlawed

Post by Anand » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:01 pm

I have to say the average person that I meet tends to be very opinionated, short on facts and living life in a very "don't take any personal responsibility" kind of way :) . Unfortunately, the media, personal biases, family history, the way they were brought up etc, all tend to affect these people and make them more afraid of weapons in general :roll: . There has been a steady demonization of firearms in the media for quite some time.
Some of my close relatives look at me as if I am going to jump up and shoot some one at any given moment :shock: . I have tried to reason with them on many occasions but to no avail, they may lose the argument with me or may choose not to take it further, but I doubt that they are convinced by my logic.

I keep thinking that they have been brainwashed into believing that the State is the one responsible for our personal safety, and that it is the job of the Police to deal with safety issues(look how well thats turning out) :shock: .
Regards,
Anand :deadhorse:

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