A glimpse of my chat with a friend

[shadow]

Dear Comrades,

Off late I have been debating with my colleagues & friends on RKBA & their views on the same generically. I started this exercise a couple of days back & out of 4 people I spoke to on different ocasions, I was surprised to see that noone believes in it & think RKBA is the biggest threat & governments may fall if such a law is passed. I cannot say these people whom I spoke to are ignorants as they are highly intellegent & well-read people from different backgrounds & globe-trotters.

Firstly, let me give you a glimpse of casual chat with one of my good friends for your views. Unfortunately, I closed the window & lost the first half of the chat. But the background is the same & hope u find continuity in the coversation:

Friend says:
thats coz not one gun at the moment is legalized....but who ever has got one has it without registration
Friend says:
i can undersatnd from an old couples pt of view
Rup says:
arey there are over a lac people in india who have licences
Rup says:
n legal firearms
Friend says:
indians dont know how to manage their anger at all
Rup says:
but they dont go around on a shootin spree
Rup says:
so site an example where sm1 was killed wit a legal firearm in a rage?
Friend says:
thats te thing
Friend says:
hav u seen how indians behave on a place
Friend says:
plane
Rup says:
yeah but they r not alowed 2 cary guns on planes
Friend says:
they act like the whole f******g plane is theirs & demands everything
Friend says:
they make a huge hue & cry about EVERYTHING!
Rup says:
n if they mean harm, tey can use anythin 2 kill the other person rite from a stick to a knife
Friend says:
now think what would happen if they had a gun
Rup says:
but tey r not alowed 2 cary a gun on planes
Rup says:
n v r not sayin tat it becomes like US where u can pick up a gun from walmart
Friend says:
they would think ' i have a gun why not use it to get my msg accross
Rup says:
v r sayin tat certain laws ve loops n needs an amendment
Friend says:
exactly! so correct those loops & ammendments b4 legalizing carry a weapon
Rup says:
v r not sayin it to be made available in hypercity or grocery shop for anyone & everyone to pick up n start firin
Rup says:
yeah so tats wat the movement is abt
Rup says:
RKBA sub-clauses cover all these points
Rup says:
to remove red-tapism
Rup says:
to remove corruption, as in if u r rich n bribe cops u get a licence no mater if u r frm a criminal background
Rup says:
issuance of licences currently is purely on whims & fancies of the cops
Friend says:
true...so we need to change that
Rup says:
v r askin for a proper system n a set of criterias to b put in place
Friend says:
we're taking the quicker way out- gettin guns
Rup says:
xactly tats y v r talkin of liberalisation, peace & patriotism
Rup says:
nopes its cald RKBA (Right to keep & bear arms)
Friend says:
i feel its too risky
Rup says:
once uve a set of criteria based on which the GOI grants licences which is uniform rite frm a common man to a millionaire things will fal in place
Rup says:
v r proposin tat issuance of licence shud b purely on basis of proper training in gun-handling, safety & discreetion
Rup says:
if it was risky then at the moment there r over a lac ppl who alrdy possess guns...ve they threatened us
Rup says:
so v r not sayin v shud b free-arms nation
Rup says:
v r sayin tat as citizens it is our rite to protect our family, property & selves and tat safety is not the necesity of the rich only
Friend says:
still not convinced

Ok, now pls dont be critical abt the whole conversation & start pointing fingures at this friend of mine. It is purely human for a person who hears the cause for the first time to be naive about the subject. And the response of uniform across all the 4 people I chatted up with.

The other 2 gave me a more logical reasoning & explaination (am not saying they were right, but purely that what they said was backed by justifiable & based on certain hypothesis). For instance, if we were to legalize firearms, once will not have to smuggle a firearm from Pak to create terror in India, but simply come to India buy one & do what he is suppose to. Not that they are stopping themselves now, but the process becomes easier.

All these conversations led to 1 strong point, that Indians cannot control their anger & cited common examples of road-rage incidents in North India. Yes a person can be killed by a hockey stick too, but manufacturing of hockey sticks are not to kill people, its purpose is not to harm anyone, so is the case of any other object including a kitchen knife or a baseball bat. Whereas guns are created with only one objective - to kill, be it for self-protection or murder!

Unfortunately, people are missing out on peace that prevails and often cite examples of exceptional cases of shooting sprees that take across the world, thanks to the media, including the famous cases of University shootout in Texas (or some other place not sure) & one that happened recently in North India wherein a student picked up hs dad's licenced gun & shot down some in his school.

I have been doing lot of surfing, networking, research and have only come across strong anti-gun sentiments, even something as simple as "quotes on guns". As I am writing this piece I have come across an interesting explaination of famous quote of Gandhi - "Arms" in this context were military arms not the personal weapons of private individuals. The context of "depriving of the whole nation of arms" was the refusal of the British to conscript Indians into the British Army during the First World War. Gandhi was an extreme anti-militarist. The statement is odd coming out of him, but he used the circumstance for political purposes to advance the cause of Home Rule and Independence."

Pls read further http://www.potowmack.org/gandhi.html#arms

So we are set against an up-hill task & our fight will be with fellow Indians & not aliens, people who have been brought up in the system laid down by Raj, be it education, legal provisions or constitutional laws. But changes dont happen overnight & one has to start somewhere.

Cheers,
Rup

[mundaire]

The attribution of Gandhi's quote as being pro-military is not quite accurate, I jumped in on a similar online debate quite a while back its archived at - http://www.politicalforum.com/history-p ... dhi-4.html

Your friend's reactions are not unusual or atypical, this is the most quoted anti-gun reason that I've come across (amongst our countrymen) as well... There is actually a historical precedent for their worry, prior to Indian independence there was widespread belief amongst the British that India would collapse into anarchy - as the natives couldn't be expected to "manage" things themselves. Well, we're still around as a functioning democracy - aren't we? Anyhow, it would seem that that old worry hasn't entirely disappeared and our "brown sahibs" are still convinced that Indians are racially inferior to Europeans...

What you should ask such people is:

If you really believe that Indians as a community are more prone to violent/ aggressive/ irresponsible behaviour then what do you think keeps us Indians from en masse procuring desi kattas @ under a thousand rupees and murdering each other in a blood soaked frenzy?

Also, since we are genetically so irresponsible, don't you think we should do away with democracy and replace it with a benign dictatorship? (if they say "sure, lets do it" then proceed to explain that there is no such thing as a benign dictatorship)

Furthermore, if there is indeed such a genetic predisposition built into each one of us purely by virtue of being born Indian, then why is it that the Indian diaspora (in each one of their resident countries) has (almost always) a lower than national average crime rate, a higher than national average income as well as higher than national average educational qualifications?

I could go on... but I am sure you get the general direction...

I apologise if some of my words may sound a bit harsh, but this is precisely the sort of elitist attitude that has kept RKBA off the table (in India) for decades!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Olly]

[shadow]

Bullseye Abhijeet!

This confrontation just gives us a feeler of what we are against in the months to come. Knowing for a fact that we are a handful as against hundreds of thousands Indians who are anti RKBA. These experience sharing will help us to know what exactly is the fear that sets them back from RKBA, what are their view points etc. thus helping us to strategize our communication. The classic example lies above, wherein Abhijeet has perfectly countered 1 of the myths about liberalisation of firearms.

And secondly it will also help each of the members here to know what we are against & be prepared as hand-in-glove. These were just common people, imagine when we come face-to-face with the antis who have their tentacles spread deeply into police, judiciary & ministry threshold. I hate to admit this & I maybe wrong too, but at the moment antis seem to be a clear majority with power & deep pockets.

Nevertheless, all it took for a handful of Indians was the courage to raise their voice, willingness to sacrifice their lives and a dream to see the dawn of Independent India that led to the downfall of otherwise strong & powerful BRITISH EMPIRE.

So lets stick together, keep doing our homework & put together a case strong & accurate to be presentated to the GOI.

Abhijeet, there are quiet a few volunteers who have come forward to do research etc. Can we look at someone who documents all of the above & other discussions happening on other forums especially CAFI which can lead us to make a presentation with an ace up our sleeve?

Cheers,
Rup

[nagarifle]

some say that ignoramus is a blessing.

i say its death

-- Fri Mar 06, 2009 17:50 --

some say that ignoramus is a blessing.

i say its death

[Rottmeister]

I have a small question to this friend of Shadow: If everybody carries guns, doesn't he think that a person shall think ten times before starting bullying around others with his own?