Indians For Guns

Hello everyone,

I would like to introduce myself to the IFG community.

I am Siddharth aka Sid ( I guess there is another member by the name Sid )

I am 31 and an airline pilot by profession. I have dabbled in hired ( and borrowed) firearms in the past ( AK 47, Beretta, Walther PPK, M16A2 and the Indian Insas Assault Rifle). I have owned a couple of air pistols in the past, first an indian model ( I do not recollect the model but it was modeled after the Beretta and was a single shot hand cock model) which gave up in 6 months due to bad material and then a Co2 powered model in the US that I had to leave behind due to the fact that I did not know how to bring it back to India. I hope to obtain a quality air pistol through this forum. I travel extensively and am a car enthusiast.

For the record, I am pro gun control but do not believe the present stance of the government on arms and ammunition is valid in the present day and age.

I must congratulate this forum for the work done and the stand taken

Regards

Siddharth

Welcome aboard Sid. Hope you have a great time while out here. Envy you for the firearms that you have tried. Also noticed that you plan to obtain a quality airpistol........I've got one for sale:)

Hi Sid,
> Welcome aboard to the band of IFGians, a great forum that gives you a great sense of belonging.
> Look forward to sharing your experiences in handling the various firearms you had the good fortune to handle.
Cheers
Brihacharan

Prabhath wrote:Welcome aboard Sid. Hope you have a great time while out here. Envy you for the firearms that you have tried. Also noticed that you plan to obtain a quality airpistol........I've got one for sale:)

Thats great can you PM me the details? and thanks for the welcome.

Sid

I am pro gun control but do not believe the present stance of the government on arms and ammunition is valid in the present day and age.

Can you please explain this a bit more.

Welcome to the forum.

-Inder

kanwar76 wrote:

I am pro gun control but do not believe the present stance of the government on arms and ammunition is valid in the present day and age.

Can you please explain this a bit more.

Welcome to the forum.

-Inder

Thanks for the welcome Inder,

I believe that any dangerous and lethal material ( nuclear, biological or material) must be under appropriate state control.

Anything that has the potential to harm or hurt needs to be controlled, a gun is no different. A lifesaving drug in the wrong hands can be lethal and so can a gun.

My strong belief is that human beings are incapable of control and in such matters we need a collective to make the decision to allow or not allow a weapon to someone. This lack of control is even more evident in developing countries like India and Bangladesh not because we are incapable of higher self control like any developed country but because we have been deprived of such things for so long and the longing is so strong that we often go overboard when such things are freely availiable. Like any other "new" sensation , the "high" around the sensation reduces over time but in the time it takes for the high to reduce the damage is done and in case of guns the repurcussions could be fatal.

I do not also agree with the blanket ban in India and the archiac and corrupt present scenaio of arms control in India. It is so stifiling that a person cannot even hone his hobby with out fear of repurcussions. This system only allows the wrong kind of people to bear arms , whether it is the Naxals, Salwa Judum, local militia or any other dada/goonda. the present scenario actually is regressive in the fact that it, in conjunction with a corrupt police and overburdened judiciary, is putting a honest citizen at risk and denying him the right to leave in peace and to be able to retaliate and protect himself if attacked.

My views in summary.

Comments Inder?

Regards

Siddharth

Welcome aboard bravo..

hope you have a great stay here with us

brihacharan wrote:Hi Sid,
> Welcome aboard to the band of IFGians, a great forum that gives you a great sense of belonging.
> Look forward to sharing your experiences in handling the various firearms you had the good fortune to handle.
Cheers
Brihacharan

Thanks for the welcome, will definetly post my experiences.

Thanks

Sid

Welcome home
Best wishes
Sondhi

buddha141 wrote: Thanks for the welcome Inder,

I believe that any dangerous and lethal material ( nuclear, biological or material) must be under appropriate state control.

Anything that has the potential to harm or hurt needs to be controlled, a gun is no different. A lifesaving drug in the wrong hands can be lethal and so can a gun.

My strong belief is that human beings are incapable of control and in such matters we need a collective to make the decision to allow or not allow a weapon to someone. This lack of control is even more evident in developing countries like India and Bangladesh not because we are incapable of higher self control like any developed country but because we have been deprived of such things for so long and the longing is so strong that we often go overboard when such things are freely availiable. Like any other "new" sensation , the "high" around the sensation reduces over time but in the time it takes for the high to reduce the damage is done and in case of guns the repurcussions could be fatal.

buddha141 wrote: I do not also agree with the blanket ban in India and the archiac and corrupt present scenaio of arms control in India. It is so stifiling that a person cannot even hone his hobby with out fear of repurcussions. This system only allows the wrong kind of people to bear arms , whether it is the Naxals, Salwa Judum, local militia or any other dada/goonda. the present scenario actually is regressive in the fact that it, in conjunction with a corrupt police and overburdened judiciary, is putting a honest citizen at risk and denying him the right to leave in peace and to be able to retaliate and protect himself if attacked.
Siddharth

I am still not able to understand, I think your first para and second part are contradicting each other. So you think, people should not be allowed to own guns and you think they should have right to protect themselves ..

Or are you advocating guns only for some people..

Sorry but I am more confused

-Inder

Welcome to IFG Sid,

As for your views about so called "gun control", it appears you have been misinformed about the facts, "Gun Control" is nothing but a well masked idea of the evil people to disarm the victims. Roots of so called "Gun Control" lie in colonial/imperialistic/fascist ambitions to disarm the people and convert them into subjects.

Any form of violence is facilitated by imbalance of power. The attackers take advantage of gun control as it ensures their security and use their numerical and physical strength to commit violent crime. If people have guns, balance of power and violence under control. Criminal would have to put his life at risk before choosing to commit a violent crime and not vice versa(of putting the life of their victims at risk).

Also "Gun Control" advocates are either not aware of facts or are nothing but deliberate indirect supporters of violent crime in a very deep rooted manner, trying to protect their real intent by the smoke screen of gun control. Their criminal mind, sunken deep into their personalities finds expression in form of "Gun control" to help out the criminals. Check the list of gun advocates, their stated motives and their real motives behind it, e.g. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin were one of the staunchest gun control supporters. Whole world knows their actual intent and how many innocent people they rounded up, aided by their "gun control" and killed them. Also the following cannot be ignored:

1. Gun control by British in India after 1857 was to suppress any future popular civil uprising, thousands defenseless rounded up and killed e.g. Jallianwala Bag massacre. So called "Gun Control" by Arms Act 1959 helps criminals attack thousands of defenseless men and women to be killed, injured, raped, kidnapped etc. every year in India. Criminals are having a merry time in India due to so called "Gun Control". Entire democracy has been for all practical purposes hijacked by criminal elements. Criminal/politicians are "winning" elections with help of so called "Gun Control" as their henchmen armed with all kinds of illegal weapons are able to terrorize the voters to either vote for them or refrain from voting.
2. 1911, Turkey established gun control, between 1915-17, 1.5 million Armenians rounded up and killed.
3. 1918, after Russian civil uprising of 1917(Russian Revolution) to prevent similar uprisings, Britain introduced gun control in it's colonies of Australia, Canada and New Zealand. It was also introduced in Britain, since many people residing in colonies also had their relatives, friends and sympathizers in Britain. Around the same time, in India the concept of "Prohibited Bore" and "Non Prohibited Bore" was introduced to further tighten the already existing draconian gun control.
4. 1929 USSR established gun control, between 1929-53 over 20 million political opponents rounded up and killed.
5. 1938 Germany established gun control, between 1939-45 over 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally
ill, union leaders, Catholics and others rounded up and killed.
6. 1935 China established gun control, between 1948-52 over 20 million political opponents rounded up and killed.
7. 1956 Combodia established gun control, 1975-77 over 1 million rounded up and killed.
8. 1970 Uganda established gun control, till 1979 over 300,000 Christians rounded up and killed.
List can be endless about people getting killed due to gun control daily around the world.

buddha141 wrote:Hello everyone,

I would like to introduce myself to the IFG community.

I am Siddharth aka Sid ( I guess there is another member by the name Sid )

I am 31 and an airline pilot by profession. I have dabbled in hired ( and borrowed) firearms in the past ( AK 47, Beretta, Walther PPK, M16A2 and the Indian Insas Assault Rifle). I have owned a couple of air pistols in the past, first an indian model ( I do not recollect the model but it was modeled after the Beretta and was a single shot hand cock model) which gave up in 6 months due to bad material and then a Co2 powered model in the US that I had to leave behind due to the fact that I did not know how to bring it back to India. I hope to obtain a quality air pistol through this forum. I travel extensively and am a car enthusiast.

For the record, I am pro gun control but do not believe the present stance of the government on arms and ammunition is valid in the present day and age.

I must congratulate this forum for the work done and the stand taken

Regards

Siddharth

Welcome dear,
not one more Sid.
Another Sid.

Siddharth

Welcome aboard Sid

Your reasoning against or pro gun control is quite contradictory..rest folks have aired their opinion hope you can take good ribbing and remember its just a debate.

What kind of planes do you fly?

best

@ Inder.

What I was meaning is this:

Every person has the right to defend himself and his family. How is another question. It is up to the state to provide legislation to provide a means for a common person to be able to protect himself. If the criminals in an country are heavily armed then let the laws be lenient enough for a lawful citizen can bear arms to protect himself. If the country is safe and well governed then let there be no reason for a common man to bear arms.

In todays India, many more Indians should be allowed to bear arms in certain categories ( you dont want RPGs and automatic rifles in the hands of you neighbourhood lala ) because of the shitty law and order situation. The ability to bear arms may not level the playing field between us and the bad guys but at least allow us to maintain a minimum deterrent.

I hope I am clear this time , if not I will be glad to clarify my stand again.


@goodboy_mentor

Whoa!! strong words there mate.

I understand the need to stand up against tyranny and yes the right to bear arms levels the playing field, but pray tell me what do you do when the bad guys decide that they need to move up the chain to bio, nuclear and other weapons to enhance their advantage? Maybe I am going overboard but at the least they will move to heavier calibers and automatic rifles? We end up in what we call an arms escalation. The US is not safer due to free gn availiabilty, instead teh bad guys now tote automatic weapons and anthrax, so what do we do now legalise automatic weapons and bio weapons?

I am NOT misinformed about facts about gun control and as someone who has lost near and dear in gun related deaths, I have a better understanding of the impact of guns on the psych of a person and the ensuing bravado that can get out of hand. Your statistics about gun related massacres are touching and sad indeed but there were a lot more deaths by way of war and in many cases the ethnic cleansing is by way of a corrupt regime and in those cases the round up would happen anyway. I myself say that in a corrupt country the citizen bears a higher right to bear arms.

I am NOT against the right of a person to bear arms against tyranny or oppression but I am definetly AGAINST putting guns in everyones hands so that he can be prepared to retaliate to a percieved threat. This is my view.You cannot have a blanket law. We need a well regulated gun law. Not the one we presently have in India.

I am sure you will not agree to my perspective and I dont expect it. I am however convinced of my stand and that is unshakeable.

Please forgive me if I have sounded offended or defensive or have said anything rude. Not the intention. I would appreciate a debate and maybe we should start another thread for it? Lets leave this one for my intro to the forum

@1905mauser aka Siddharth: Thanks a lot mate. Hope to be of some use here.

@ngrewal: Thanks for the welcome. Ribbing is always welcome, I hope the other will take the response as game as me .
I guess my choice of words was wrong when I put my point across, maybe my reply to Inder and goodboy_mentor helps clear it up. Cheers!

First of all thanks Sid, for taking out time to reply.

Every person has the right to defend himself and his family. How is another question. It is up to the state to provide legislation to provide a means for a common person to be able to protect himself. If the criminals in an country are heavily armed then let the laws be lenient enough for a lawful citizen can bear arms to protect himself. If the country is safe and well governed then let there be no reason for a common man to bear arms.

That’s a kind of catch 22 situation. Do you know of any country which is safe without having lenient gun laws?

In todays India, many more Indians should be allowed to bear arms in certain categories ( you dont want RPGs and automatic rifles in the hands of you neighbourhood lala ) because of the shitty law and order situation. The ability to bear arms may not level the playing field between us and the bad guys but at least allow us to maintain a minimum deterrent.

I don’t really mind my neighborhood Lala or for that matter Doodhwala having a RPG or automatic rifles as long as he keeps to himself and knows exactly what he is doing. At the same time I would also like to have the freedom to have same arms. Do you really think that Lala or Doodhwala will try something silly if he knows that I am also having same stuff? I highly doubt.

Please search for latest statics of licensed arms used in crime from Chandigarh posted by Mundaire on the site. I don’t think that will change no matter if you have pea shooters pistols or automatic rifles.

-Inder