Indians For Guns

while back i acquired a old color photo, which was taken in 1930s, i think that more like in 1937 it was taken by a well known anthropologist chap at the time.

we can see two firearms one is flint lock musket and the second one is a bb shotgun.

this are not illegal as it was before India came into being so it being illegal arms is totally out of the question.
any idea what make these are. possible of 1870's ere. you can see that the arms are much longer then the warriors holding them.

Was the anthropologist in question Christoph Von Furer-Haimendorf ?

Ashok

The one in the left looks like a Brown Bess Musket....................the other gun looks the same..............

Seems like generic Konyak/Khaimungan muskets...which in turn are copies of generic percussion MLs.

Most would be percussion (as in the picture) since its much easier than building all the lock-work for a flint lock.

The buggers have turned lazy in recent years... turning out mostly crude, unsafe, steering-column derived brazings.

The photos being of 30's vintage (or so) would mean most of the barrels would have been from water pipes ripped out from the tea-gardens in the Assam plains during those numerous head hunting raids....which provoked the British to protect the gardens...for which they needed to make punitive expeditions into the wild Naga Hills....eventually and quite accidentally becoming the boss....for which we all eventually speak English...er...Eengris...

lazybones wrote:Was the anthropologist in question Christoph Von Furer-Haimendorf ?

Ashok

yes its him. old man now.

Cottage Cheese,

Can I request you to do a write up on the locally produced muskets.

Nagarifle,

If you have other photographs,can you share them with us? Are there any other details on the photograph that you have posted?

Wow! Barrels made of pipe? Would I be correct in assuming that this would be normal, as opposed to seamless tubing? How much of a charge of black powder can such tubing take? The workmanship seems pretty impressive, none the less.

I actually think that they are quite well made from the looks. Do not look to be crudely made at all,especially the stocks. I could be wrong but that's how they look to me.

Timmy, I read that the poachers in the Kaziranga National Park in Assam used to kill Rhinos with muzzle loaders made of water pipes.

Best-
Vikram

timmy wrote:Wow! Barrels made of pipe? Would I be correct in assuming that this would be normal, as opposed to seamless tubing? How much of a charge of black powder can such tubing take? The workmanship seems pretty impressive, none the less.

timmy
how much powder they would take is a good question, but no real answer to that. one thing is sure they will know its enough when the tube explodes in their face

i have seen a small measuring device which some have and use that to put powder down the tube. i have not heard of any such injurers from blown tubes. one reason is that they hardly go to hospitals, even if their were any nearby.

the men in the pic are of the konyak naga tribe. they still make muskets but losing the art of it. under the local law they have freedom to make limited amounts of muskets.

winnie_the_pooh wrote:Cottage Cheese,

Can I request you to do a write up on the locally produced muskets.

Nagarifle,

If you have other photographs,can you share them with us? Are there any other details on the photograph that you have posted?

Hi pooh,

I'd already done a brief write up some years back... http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1843

From this coming month I'm going to be back in Nagaland for a more long term-ish stay... I'll try to see the possibility of Nagarifle and I spending some time documenting these gunsmiths in Mon district....perhaps we can even prepare a pictorial of a Konyak ML from scratch to completion... hope it happens.

regards,
cc

CC,

That would be very nice.I hope you go ahead and help out atleast one of the blacksmiths to make a better musket as you had hinted in your old post.

timmy wrote:Wow! Barrels made of pipe? Would I be correct in assuming that this would be normal, as opposed to seamless tubing? How much of a charge of black powder can such tubing take? The workmanship seems pretty impressive, none the less.

Hey timmy,

The tubing, nowadays, most of the time is from steering columns... those form the older Jeeps seem to be prized. Additionally the blacksmiths/gunsmiths also double as scrap collectors often and are always on the look out for suitable tubing. I have not come across use of seamed tubing, however.

General workmanship is good- leaning more on the sturdier side than the prettier side. Leaf springs are pretty stiff. Again nowadays, most of the time its from jeep and other automobile springs.

Way back then, they worked either on scrap metal bartered or pinched from Assam or from wrought iron that was again bartered from Assam. I have not come across any hint of metal being produced in the Naga Hills.

Many (not all)of the village blacksmiths still use very primitive hardware, like stone hammers and anvils for forging and furnace bellows that use chicken feathers! This I gotta see!

As regards loads, most of the time the loads are pretty sedate... unless provoked by alcohol and tribal bravado...

With regard to Vickers point on the poachers in Kaziranga, yes, indeed they often use "single-use" Mls that is more than adequately made up for by a successful depredation. They do on occasion use more modern stuff like AKs, SKS, SLRS, 303's particularly when the operation is backed by some of the regional Guerrilla outfits. Why, last year some poachers were caught in Kaziranga, and the rifle(reportedly not stolen) was traced back to the Nagaland Forest Department... I wonder how that matter was buried...but I do recall some very red faces.

nagas being nagas and hunting is in the blood

When it comes to pipe, I do know that in the Philippines during WW2, Filipino resistance made shotguns out of pipe. The "barrel" would fit inside a larger, shorter piece, which was attached to the stock. A nail in the stock at the back served as a firing pin. A shotgun shell was "chambered" in the inner tube and when it was pulled back inside the outer tube, the nail would strike the primer.

When one has to make do with what's available, well, that's that!

I agree, the workmanship in the picture looks to be well done.

Thanks for the background on this, it is all quite fascinating. It is amazing how distanced from reality "modern" life can become!

timmy wrote:When it comes to pipe, I do know that in the Philippines during WW2, Filipino resistance made shotguns out of pipe. The "barrel" would fit inside a larger, shorter piece, which was attached to the stock. A nail in the stock at the back served as a firing pin. A shotgun shell was "chambered" in the inner tube and when it was pulled back inside the outer tube, the nail would strike the primer.
When one has to make do with what's available, well, that's that!

Hi Timmy,

I suppose you are are referring to the four winds shotgun?