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Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:18 pm
by farook
Hi Anyone used this product. They recommend it for sport rifles and high residue weapons.....
http://ballistol.in/robla-solo-mil-100-ml-p-187.html
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:17 pm
by Vineet
It contains ammonia and should be used with caution. Should NOT be used in chrome line barrel.
More on ammonia
http://www.ehow.com/way_5693045_ammonia ... aning.html
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:30 pm
by farook
Is it restricted to Hammer Forged Barrels. What about the IOF pistol...
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:21 pm
by andy_65_in
would this be safe on brno model 1 rifle and bsa shotgun.anyone who can clarify
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:17 pm
by Vineet
Yes it can be used in iof pistol, brno and bsa but make sure that...
>> do not keep it in barrel for more than 20 minutes
>> clean the barrel properly and make sure that all the ammonia based solvent is out.
>> do not use it frequently but only in case of extreme buildup.
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:28 pm
by TwoRivers
farook wrote:
Is it restricted to Hammer Forged Barrels. What about the IOF pistol...
Now why would the method used to rifle a barrel have anything to with with what bore cleaners should, or should not, be used ? How do such notions ever get started ?
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:44 pm
by z375
TwoRivers wrote:farook wrote:
Is it restricted to Hammer Forged Barrels. What about the IOF pistol...
Now why would the method used to rifle a barrel have anything to with with what bore cleaners should, or should not, be used ? How do such notions ever get started ?
My point exactly! You saved my digits from being overworked Tworivers!:cheers:
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:38 pm
by timmy
For corrosive primers, having some ammonia in the cleaning fluid enables the fluid to counteract the corrosive salts produced by the primer being ignited. I use ammonia solutions for this reason, including in my NHM-91 (an AK variant) and my SKS, both of which are Chinese-made and have chrome-lined barrels.
I am not understanding the claim about ammonia-based solvents adversely affecting chrome-lined barrels.
Chrome lined barrels and ammonia
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:27 pm
by skeetshot
The pleasure of using an evenly chrome lined barrel (such as the IOF 30-06) becomes apparent in how easily it cleans even with a simple pull through.
However, the very process of chrome deposition in a barrel creates microscopic cracks in the chrome lining, and it is here that the danger lurks.
Robla Sol Military, as any one who has used it knows, is an extremely strong ammonia based cleaner. It really has the ability to cut through and dissolve extreme copper deposits in all those nooks and crannies between the lands and grooves.
Here, those microscopic cracks create a capilliary effect, and unless this cleaner is properly removed, it will deposit in these cracks. Ammonia is hygroscopic, i.e. water seeking and thus creates a risk of creating rust under the chrome lining if not properly removed.
Very few chrome lined barrels get rough enough to tear the copper off the jackets to become a problem, the process of chrome plating smooths a lot of those rough machine marks out.
Regular cleaning with an oil like Ballistol followed by some milder cleaners like Hoppes No 9 would take care of most of the barrel maintenance of a heavily shot barrel.
Yet when one feels the need to do so, use Robla Sol, and after a few strokes, run a couple of dry patches through the barrel to remove as much residue as possible. I follow that up with a few patches soaked in ordinary water to dissolve as much of the ammonia as possible, the classic way is to pour boiling water through your barrel, and the heat of the water will help evaporate a lot of it out.
Follow this by some more dry patches and recoat your barrel with a light water displacing oil like Kroil or WD 40. Remove this oil after a while with some dry patches and recoat the barrel with a good CLP (Cleaning, Lubricating and Protecting) oil such as Ballistol or Break Free or whatever you prefer and you are done.
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:17 pm
by xl_target
There seems to be some confusion about the application of Chrome. Decorative chrome is often applied over bright nickel plating. The substrate copper is buffed smooth and a thin layer of plating is applied over it. The problem is that a scratch on the coating can expose the substrate below which in turn can be attacked by ammonia based solvents.
The issue here is that the industrial hard chrome used on the inside of a rifle's bore
is not applied over copper, therefore ammonia based solvents should have no affect on it.
That being said, chrome plating on the inside of a barrel is replete with cracks. According to some people, these Ammonia based solvents can get in those cracks and lift the chrome. I really can't see why as chrome is not directly affected by Ammonia and neither is steel. As I said before, there is
no copper under industrial hard chrome. On the Internet, you will, however, see many articles that will make BS statements like "Ammonia eats Chrome".
The principal performance requirement of a gun barrel bore coating is to prevent premature wear and erosion of the gun barrel resulting in a shorter service life. Wear and erosion shortens gun life through both ballistic inaccuracy and through the acceleration of mechanical fatigue failure. In the case of ballistic inaccuracy, wear and erosion of the bore surface causes bore enlargement through the removal of bore material. The removal of this material provides room for propelling charge gasses to pass the cartridge (or projectile) while it is still in-bore. As a result, the cartridge (or projectile) leaves the gun with a lower muzzle velocity resulting in target dispersion. As far as mechanical fatigue life reduction is concerned, bore coatings can provide thermal protection that can prevent substrate transformation (untempered martensite) and the susceptibility to crack formation in the altered layer.
The current erosion mechanism of chrome plated large caliber guns starts during the manufacturing process. After the barrel has been plated it must be exposed to a hydrogen bake-out process. During this process, the barrel is heated so that hydrogen, provided during the plating process, can be liberated. The liberation of hydrogen and other non-chrome contaminants causes a volumetric reduction of the chrome layer. Tensile stresses build up during the post-hydrogen relief cool-down period as the coating volume attempts to contract. Since the coating is adhered to the barrel, the coating cannot freely contract. The stresses are partially relieved through the development of small cracks (called micro-cracks) in the coating. Once the barrel is fielded, these “micro-cracks” provide pathways for the propelling charge gasses to reach and attack the steel substrate. When this happens, oxides and carbides are produced in the steel substrate just underneath the chromium layer. These oxides and carbides further reduce the melting point of the steel substrate allowing material to be removed through the action of “gas wash”. As this material departs the gun, it takes chromium with it revealing more of the unprotected substrate. With more unprotected substrate available to the gas stream, the erosion process dramatically increases. The resulting roughened surface causes an increase in heat transfer coefficient allowing an even greater heat load to the gun barrel. Further cracking of the chromium coating (beyond the as-manufactured micro-cracks) also occurs as a result of the thermal cycling of the gun barrel. During firing, the surface of the gun bore reaches 1400C within a few milliseconds. A steep thermal gradient develops resulting in dramatic shear stresses at the coating-substrate interface. These stresses aid in the chrome removal process. As the bore surface temperature rises, the chrome coating wants to expand and the “islands” of chrome (separated only by the micro-cracks produced during deposition) push against each other with the edges of these “islands” lifting up. Upon cool-down, these edges can be removed by the passage of the round. Again, this roughened surface causes an increase in heat transfer coefficient allowing an even greater heat load to the gun barrel.
quote from here. Please note that the above linked article is about large caliber guns like howitzers and naval guns rather than rifle barrels. However, there is no reason that think that similar cracking doesn't occur in the chrome plated barrels of small arms..
So what's the definitive answer? I'm not sure. I do use ammonia based cleaners to remove copper fouling but I don't use them very often. I also don't leave the copper solvent in for more than a few minutes. I then clean everything off with CLP and leave a coating of CLP in the bore till just before shooting.
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:56 am
by timmy
XL, this is great information. It is sure handy to have a person educated and experienced in metallurgy on board here!
I believe I'm pretty safe, as my cleaning regimen for guns shooting ammunition with corrosive primers is usually the same: first, a few rounds of running the bronze bore brush through, then some patches that are soaked in Windex (which has weak ammonia in it, to counteract the corrosive primer residue), then some military cleaner that seems to have something like kerosine in it (it's US Military issue), and finally, a patch with a tinge of automatic transmission fluid, especially if the guns will sit very long. I find ATF is a very good rust preventative.
If I'm worried about copper fouling, a few patches with Hoppe's #9 or something similar will be used before the ATF.
No WD 40 is used, as it is hygroscopic and attracts every piece of dust for miles around.
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:31 am
by xl_target
Here, those microscopic cracks create a capilliary effect, and unless this cleaner is properly removed, it will deposit in these cracks. Ammonia is hygroscopic, i.e. water seeking and thus creates a risk of creating rust under the chrome lining if not properly removed.
Skeetshot,
This statement above definitely has merit.
After I get the copper solvent patched out, I use a Hoppes soaked patch on a nylon bore brush and then several dry patches. I then finish up with CLP. I leave the bore damp with CLP when I put the rifle back in the safe. I also leave the metal outer surfaces damp with CLP. Just before I use the gun, I pull it out and wipe it down and then run a dry patch through the bore.
Sometimes, a rifle might sit in the safe for a year before I use it again. In that case I will periodically examine it and apply more CLP as needed. My deer rifle was made in 1984 and doesn't have any rust on it. It is a rifle that is not used very often.
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:35 pm
by perfectionist1
I have both Robla Solo Mili and Ballistol spray.
I strongly feel only using Ballistol spray inside the barrel will do the work, post discharge of ammo. There is no need of Robla Solo, it may have been good as military solution, where 100s of rounds were fired in a day and under all adverse conditions like dust, soot or mud.
For civilian use on Ballistol may be used.
I understand Ballistol also spoils gold plated guns (....wish we had one)
Cheers.....
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:49 pm
by farook
perfectionist1 wrote:I have both Robla Solo Mili and Ballistol spray.
I strongly feel only using Ballistol spray inside the barrel will do the work, post discharge of ammo. There is no need of Robla Solo, it may have been good as military solution, where 100s of rounds were fired in a day and under all adverse conditions like dust, soot or mud.
For civilian use on Ballistol may be used.
I understand Ballistol also spoils gold plated guns (....wish we had one)
Cheers.....
Neat answer thanks. I do understand that Ballistol is rather mild as compared to other gun oils. It does have a good reputation for handling Ornate guns better than most other alternatives. Robla is a second in line if the residue is very high. As target pistol/ rifle shooters practice for 4 to 5 hours a day, they may prefer something stronger as the residue would be high after the extensive practice.
Re: Robla Solo Mili
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:37 pm
by hks2056
After using it for past thirty years in Delhi on my rifle, shotgun and revolver[ earlier pistol] i can vouchsafe that WD40 is the best protective cum light lubricant. It does not leave gummy residue upon drying. My elder brother who also has more experience of owning firearms is great fan of using Mobil 0 -40 oil for the purpose. He says that what is good enough for racing cars is more than good for a firearm. However he religiously cleans his firearms once in three months if left unfired. I dont fire any more so for past eight years I clean my weapons twice a year on 30th November and 30th June without fail.I never had a rust problem and my weapons are ready for use anytime without having to bother about removing the oil from barrel before firing.I dont understand as to why WD40 is so underrated.